Plea for calm after city clashes

#1
Police and community leaders in Birmingham have appealed for calm after a man was stabbed to death in disturbances in the Lozells area.
Three other people were stabbed, and a police officer was hit in the leg with a ball bearing fired from a gun.

The violence on Saturday is thought to have involved rival groups of youths.

It was reportedly linked to tensions in the past week over the alleged sexual assault of a 14-year-old-girl although no offence has been reported.

Extra police are on duty in the area and there is damage on a number of streets.

The disturbances broke out after a public meeting at the New Testament Church of God over the alleged assault.

Two senior police officers, the Labour MP for Perry Barr, Khalid Mahmood, and church leaders had addressed the meeting.

Police say the violence was not a reaction to the meeting.
Full story: BBC news
 
#2
Why do I feel that this has more to do with simmering tensions between rival drugs gangs then any supposed assualt?
It's nice to see PTP's favourite MP doing his best to diffuse the situation :p
 
#3
Its stupid. It goes on all over the UK, the world. Gangs are gangs, its all race or drugs the fighting is about, gang warfare my arse, stupidity more like :roll:

Very annoying.
 
#5
If she is illegal, wouldn't she be caught now and dealt with? So she might as well report it.

But then again, how many people have cried wolf over a rape allegation over the past year or so?
 
#7
frenchperson said:
DozyBint said:
Round them all up & shoot the lot!

Dozy is NOT in a tolerant mood today...


...and what would you say when you ARE in a tolerant mood? Round them all up and give them a lethal injection?
Ah, frenchperson, how nice of you to comment... Fark orff.
 
#8
Call me a muppet, but I thought a community leader was an elected local MP or Counsellor who stands for the voice of the people or have I slept through the bit where random people can elect them selves as "Community Leaders"?
Who are these 40 people???????
 
#9
CowboyBob said:
Call me a muppet, but I thought a community leader was an elected local MP or Counsellor who stands for the voice of the people or have I slept through the bit where random people can elect them selves as "Community Leaders"?
Who are these 40 people???????
hahaha - Voice of the people? more like the voice of their own personal and party's ambition.
A member of my family used to be a community leader in Lozells all due to the fact that he had the misfortune to be vicar of the local CofE church. But I would say that community leaders by the old 'victorian' definnition also includes: clerics, business people, unionists and local community workers.
 
#10
Ah Cowboy, but are MPs representatives, representatives or representatives?

i) An MP represents his / her constituency by being an 'average' person of that constituency and therefore has shared beliefs and values.
ii) An MP represents his / her constituency by being a spokesperson for that constituency, voting in line with and voicing the majority view on all issues.
iii) An MP represents his / her constituency by being a 'nanny', voting in a way that the individual believes best serves their own <ahem> their constituents' best interests.

The police and the victim(s)' and accused(s)' legal representatives should be the only ones involved in this - anyone else should be told firmly to back away and if they continue to attempt to get involved they should be charged with wasting police time and if warranted, breach of the peace. We have due process of law and it's about time people started respecting that.
 
#13
Dozy, when you running for office? You'd make a better MP than the excuses we have now!

Vote For DB!
 
#14
I think In this context Community leaders is referring to the leaders of the various ethnic and cultural groups who reside within the locality of Birmingham.
I feel that this group would have become involved at the request of the local police as they are often highly regarded and respected within there individual communities, and can therefore assist with police with there work in keeping the peace and getting people to come forward and make statements etc
Unfortunately it would appear that a small minority with the community choose this opportunity to incite unrest which lead to the events of last night.
Unfortunately the area in question has a highly diverse population and is one of the poorer areas of Birmingham and is frequently in the news for similar events for example the drive by shooting of the Shakespeare girl.

I also believe that if the events that lead up to this incident are true, then regardless of weather the young lady involved is an illegal immigrant or not she did not deserve what happened to her, and she deserves a fair trial.

Rant over, soap box away.
S-D
 
#15
armr said:
Somebody needs to tell these "community leaders" that in England when a crime has been committed the only answer you give the community is GO TO THE POLICE or do these "community leaders" think they and "their" community are above the law or don't need to follow the Laws of the UK ?.
Having worked recently with people form similar communities 'these people' have little understanding about our Police force and our laws, a number because of personal experiances prior to arriving in this country where the 'police force' are corrupt and on the side of the minority not the majority. Therefore the community leaders play an important role in ensuring that the police are able to carry out there roles within the community. by offering reassurance to 'their' community that they are doing the right thing by going to the police or acting as interpreters etc.
 
#16
S-D, I absolutely agree that the law should be followed and that a fair trial of the accused is enacted, however, the fact that the alleged victim is allegedly in the UK illegally can't be ignored with regard to how the investigation progresses. I know from conversations with serving Met police officers how much effort goes into investigating 'regular' crimes and as a result of the "institutionally racist" label applied to our policemen and women, the effort involved when investigating crimes involving non-Caucasians is invariably an awful lot more as checks and double checks are made that nothing has been missed. Is this now "institutionally racist" against indigenous white British people? The investigation will no doubt cover why the alleged victim was targeted and it may possibly have people-smuggling and gang links.

With regard to the issue of community leaders, this yet again boils down to the unwillingness of large parts of our immigrant population to assimilate into the British way of life. An idyllic scenario would be a community leader in the form of an elected local Mayor and their fellow Councillors who are without prejudice or exception a single point of contact for their community and the police force that serves it, but significant portions of our society don't see themselves as part of society but a special interest group. This attitude merely enhances suspicion and isolation of portions of local communities which is why we end up with situations such as this. I am sick and fed up with it: law abiding folk of any colour or religion should be protected by the State; equally those who breach the laws of the State should be properly punished. We seem to have forgotten that we are all equal before the law and none of us is above the law - people need to be reminded, and soon.
 
#17
armr said:
Sluice_dweller said:
armr said:
Somebody needs to tell these "community leaders" that in England when a crime has been committed the only answer you give the community is GO TO THE POLICE or do these "community leaders" think they and "their" community are above the law or don't need to follow the Laws of the UK ?.
Having worked recently with people form similar communities 'these people' have little understanding about our Police force and our laws, a number because of personal experiances prior to arriving in this country where the 'police force' are corrupt and on the side of the minority not the majority. Therefore the community leaders play an important role in ensuring that the police are able to carry out there roles within the community. by offering reassurance to 'their' community that they are doing the right thing by going to the police or acting as interpreters etc.
BUT the community leaders are NOT ensuring that the community understand about the UK police are they? come to that the community leaders do little to help the community understand UK life at all preferring to keep their community living as if they were still in their country of origin.

No one deserves to be raped. But had this girl not entered the country [/b]illegally (assuming the reports to be true)AND the community and community leaders helped her live as an illegal she may not have come here in the first place or stayed and would not of then been raped.


For god sake, the child in question is 14 - do you think she woke up one morning and thought 'I've had enough of this place I live i know I'll move to England' .......no I don't think so.....someone either sent her or bought here her.....does this mean whoever that person is should be charged for her rape cause if she wasn't here it wouldn't have happened......
 
#18
Either way 14 yrs of age or not. Something this big will always be opened up worse than a can of worms.

(100 yrs ago you were Imprisoned 7yrs of age and above as the UK law said that you were old enough to know right from wrong.)

I really do feel for the 14yr old girl. Question is, if she reported it, would this gang war/fight been at this level? Who knows.

Whats done is done but the law needs to be impressed back onto the UK, seems like people lack it these days.
 
#19
Sluice_dweller said:
Having worked recently with people form similar communities 'these people' have little understanding about our Police force and our laws, a number because of personal experiances prior to arriving in this country where the 'police force' are corrupt and on the side of the minority not the majority.
Another argument for all immigrants (I would argue that children should also be taught basic civics in school) to undergo civics classes prior to being given citizenship - ALL citizen-subjects of the United Kingdom should understand the civic and political stucture of the UK and the checks and balances that a liberal-democratic regime enshrines.
 
#20
frenchperson said:
DozyBint said:
Round them all up & shoot the lot!

Dozy is NOT in a tolerant mood today...


...and what would you say when you ARE in a tolerant mood? Round them all up and give them a lethal injection?
She might not but I would.

I know the area where the riots took place very, very well and on the whole there are four types of people that live there

1. People that bought or rented houses without researching the area first thinking they were buying in the Birmingham commuter belt. They tend to leave pretty quickly.

2. Drug dealers

3. Drug addicts

4. The rest that turn a blind eye to numbers 2 and 3.

It is an almost exclusivley "none white" area where ethnic groups have, of their own free will, formed their own little "ghettos" (no one makes anyone buy a house there). Parts of it are strictly no go at night (and in the day in some cases) and along with Handsworth and Smallheath is probably one of the biggest drug distribution centres in the Midlands. Whilst the girl in question undoubtedly did not deserve the vicious attack that she was subjected to, I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep if we just left them to it and let them wipe each other out. It'd probably drop the amount of available Class A drugs on the street by a third.
 

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