Platinum Jubilee Medal

964ST

LE
Thanks for explaining what a jubilee medal is, really struggled with that concept. But the end result is the same as a NDM, a gong for simply being in the Army for 5 years.

And nice try with the ACSM, but given it’s awarded for repeated tours of actual medal earning work (ie meeting that pesky risk and rigour criteria I mentioned above) it’s clearly not in the same league as any Webster’s NDM.
Must admit the ACSM is the one medal fom my meagre bunch that "I personaly" count as Special.

Each to their own. Boys Brigade were always good for badges.
 

threaders144

Old-Salt
Thanks for explaining what a jubilee medal is, really struggled with that concept. But the end result is the same as a NDM, a gong for simply being in the Army for 5 years.

And nice try with the ACSM, but given it’s awarded for repeated tours of actual medal earning work (ie meeting that pesky risk and rigour criteria I mentioned above) it’s clearly not in the same league as any Webster’s NDM.

Think you need to chill out; it’s a debate / discussion and funnily enough, nothing said here will change anything.

That fact is that you have struggled with it and I won’t go back over the nuance. There is no ‘nice try’ wrt the ACSM - it’s the natural extension of your argument.. if you get deployed for and as part of your job, why get an extra medal for simply being in the military.
 

wild_moose

War Hero
I think the key comment was ‘significant’. It’s all a bit devils advocate tbh.. whilst I sympathise with their justification, I’m still serving and not all that fussed.
I think the key comment was ‘significant’. It’s all a bit devils advocate tbh.. whilst I sympathise with their justification, I’m still serving and not all that fussed.
Which the veterans badge is

One of the meanings of ‘significant’ is “having a particular meaning” which this does.
 

threaders144

Old-Salt
Which the veterans badge is

One of the meanings of ‘significant’ is “having a particular meaning” which this does.

I agree that ‘significant’ is the salient word to consider, but it’s objective - to you the badge is significant and obviously others don’t see it as such. As I say, it won’t change, so objectors will have to accept the badge as significant.
 

Fabius Maximus

Old-Salt
Think you need to chill out; it’s a debate / discussion and funnily enough, nothing said here will change anything.

That fact is that you have struggled with it and I won’t go back over the nuance. There is no ‘nice try’ wrt the ACSM - it’s the natural extension of your argument.. if you get deployed for and as part of your job, why get an extra medal for simply being in the military.
It’s not an extension of my argument, and it’s not for simply being in the military as you know or everyone would have them. It’s for actually going on tour - something the guys who want a NDM are clearly sad and bitter about.
 
Until you stop people wearing medals that they haven't earnt (including the veterans badge) then in my opinion medals these days mean nothing except to the recipient.
 

wild_moose

War Hero
I agree that ‘significant’ is the salient word to consider, but it’s objective - to you the badge is significant and obviously others don’t see it as such. As I say, it won’t change, so objectors will have to accept the badge as significant.
Agreed, whatever is implemented they’ll be some who don’t qualify and / or want something different

IMHO the veterans badge is ok, does what it’s intended to without a onerous qualification that really should satisfy most
 

Fabius Maximus

Old-Salt
What's a BAOR medal?
It’s a non-official gong for those who served in the British Army over the Rhine (BAOR). Anyone can buy one as a ‘commemorative’ medal but is often worn by veterans who are touchy about the fact they didn’t get any medals so wear made up ones.

 

Endoscope

LE
Book Reviewer
It’s a non-official gong for those who served in the British Army over the Rhine (BAOR). Anyone can buy one as a ‘commemorative’ medal but is often worn by veterans who are touchy about the fact they didn’t get any medals so wear made up ones.

Jeepers!
 
Until you stop people wearing medals that they haven't earnt (including the veterans badge) then in my opinion medals these days mean nothing except to the recipient.
The vast majority of the public couldn't give a flying f*ck about it; On Remembrance Day I was invited to a black tie dinner at a Club and sat next to the immediate Past President who had two 'additional' miniatures alongside his GSM(NI) and UNICYP medal (International Year of the Infantryman or somesuch bollocks; I can't remember what the other one was). I sat there with my rack; nothing was said. Nothing needed to be said. There were a couple of Old and Bold members with GSM (NI) in the audience; nobody challenged this guy - at the end of the day, as a civilian, he is not doing anything illegal, although in our eyes he is a Walt. Did I get all angry and pour boiling syrup over him? Did I post images on Walthunters.com? Nah. I couldn't really GAF either, now I've left.
 

threaders144

Old-Salt
It’s not an extension of my argument, and it’s not for simply being in the military as you know or everyone would have them. It’s for actually going on tour - something the guys who want a NDM are clearly sad and bitter about.

And going on tours are part and parcel of the job you sign up for, part of your TORs. In fact the extension of your argument is that all medals accumulated in service that don’t require the individual to go above and beyond / exceed their terms of reference are part and parcel of their service e.g. MBE, gallantry medals, etc are all require an individual to operate and demonstrate something beyond their employment, generally speaking - everything else you do (or don’t) get awarded is par for the course and all require an element of luck depending on when you join, who you join and where you get posted.
 
The vast majority of the public couldn't give a flying f*ck about it; On Remembrance Day I was invited to a black tie dinner at a Club and sat next to the immediate Past President who had two 'additional' miniatures alongside his GSM(NI) and UNICYP medal (International Year of the Infantryman or somesuch bollocks; I can't remember what the other one was). I sat there with my rack; nothing was said. Nothing needed to be said. There were a couple of Old and Bold members with GSM (NI) in the audience; nobody challenged this guy - at the end of the day, as a civilian, he is not doing anything illegal, although in our eyes he is a Walt. Did I get all angry and pour boiling syrup over him? Did I post images on Walthunters.com? Nah. I couldn't really GAF either, now I've left.
When you say two additional miniatures, do you mean two miniature official medals or two miniature commemorative medals, if such things exist?
 
He had two official ones (GSM (NI) and UNICYP and two additional bling medals - all miniatures and court mounted and worn on his DJ. Yes, all of these vanity medals can be obtained as miniatures.
I’ve never understood why people with laudable service and bona fide gongs would need to embellish them with self awarded tat.
To go to the extent of miniatures too, that speaks of deep seated ego issues coupled with more money than sense.
 

Fabius Maximus

Old-Salt
And going on tours are part and parcel of the job you sign up for, part of your TORs. In fact the extension of your argument is that all medals accumulated in service that don’t require the individual to go above and beyond / exceed their terms of reference are part and parcel of their service e.g. MBE, gallantry medals, etc are all require an individual to operate and demonstrate something beyond their employment, generally speaking - everything else you do (or don’t) get awarded is par for the course and all require an element of luck depending on when you join, who you join and where you get posted.
No, my argument is that medals are awarded for ‘risk and rigour’ which has been decided upon as above normal duty and thus deserving of a medal. My argument is based on the current policy as decided by the MoD, so it’s their argument really. And yes, it does depend on luck so you have to suck it up like a big boy.

Your argument, however, seems to be “I signed up for a voluntary job, which I can leave at any time, get paid for handsomely compared to the average salary, and I might get asked to do something dangerous. On the basis of me MAYBE doing said dangerous thing, can I have a medal please because I don’t look as cool as those that do have some?”
 

threaders144

Old-Salt
No, my argument is that medals are awarded for ‘risk and rigour’ which has been decided upon as above normal duty and thus deserving of a medal. My argument is based on the current policy as decided by the MoD, so it’s their argument really. And yes, it does depend on luck so you have to suck it up like a big boy.

Your argument, however, seems to be “I signed up for a voluntary job, which I can leave at any time, get paid for handsomely compared to the average salary, and I might get asked to do something dangerous. On the basis of me MAYBE doing said dangerous thing, can I have a medal please because I don’t look as cool as those that do have some?”

I’m afraid your initial argument was ‘they’re both awarded for simply being in the Army’ - your later statement about risk and rigour was in relation the ACSM. So if we go back to your initial point, OSMs are awarded for ‘simply being in the Army’.. no more or less than doing your job.

I’ll reiterate to you that I don’t have a horse in the race; I’m a serving regular and quite happy with what I’ve got, thank you. The fact that you’re attempting to make it personal illustrates you’ve lost control of yourself and the discussion.

And no, my argument was that I understand why some people may petition for a medal that has it’s own standalone criteria like the ADM, not that I advocate for it.
 

Fabius Maximus

Old-Salt
I’m afraid your initial argument was ‘they’re both awarded for simply being in the Army’ - your later statement about risk and rigour was in relation the ACSM. So if we go back to your initial point, OSMs are awarded for ‘simply being in the Army’.. no more or less than doing your job.

I’ll reiterate to you that I don’t have a horse in the race; I’m a serving regular and quite happy with what I’ve got, thank you. The fact that you’re attempting to make it personal illustrates you’ve lost control of yourself and the discussion.

And no, my argument was that I understand why some people may petition for a medal that has it’s own standalone criteria like the ADM, not that I advocate for it.
You’re conflating my arguments about the NDM and jubilee medals which from a recipients viewpoint, based on criteria, amount to being awarded for simply being in the Army. And no, OSMs aren’t awarded for being in the Army and you know this; you have to serve 28 days in a specific JOA that meets the risk and rigour criteria - if it was for simply being in the Army then everyone would have one.

The ACSM is awarded for 720 days service on campaign - ie in a place meeting the aforementioned risk and rigour criteria, meaning all OSMs, GSM 08 and ASCM 11 require one to serve in a JOA or requisite risk and rigour to get them.

I’m not making it personal, I was caricaturing your argument and have not mentioned anything about you as a person so you don’t get that starter for ten.

And like you I understand why people want a gong, just that you view it as a noble view and I think it’s naked envy.

Learn the rules about the medals before you chops off like a chopper about something you don’t know anything about. (See? That’s personal - learn the difference fcukwit)
 
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