PKC - having to pay for your own training as a copper

About a century ago, I stumbled on a quotation from some Victorian geezer (which I didn't commit to memory, and I have several times since wished that I had).

His view - in a nutshell - was that Policing is a job that, to be done properly (let alone well) requires the very best kind of men, but somehow attracts quite another sort.

Posts from serving coppers like HTB, shine a light on how that works, it seems to me.

Basically throw out the statistics, don't be so keen to charge, don't look for kudos and if you can get to the heart of a really bad'un never get off his tail. A really bad one sent down is worth millions of tickets. 99% of the job is boredom and about 1% adrenalin. As for the rest a word in the shell like can save a lot of heartache. I took that to customs with me. I do hope I'm not talking out of turn as the cuzzie world was different.
 
Well LR junior has a cantab 2:1 criminology but Met police told him he needed to be of a different ethnicity. So he's done volunteering work and is now contemplating the specials. Make you larf, Just before I retired from the Vaz border agency I was asked to particpate in an occupational qualification to prove I could do the job I had been doing for 30 years on a Volutary basis. As normal I was volunteered. So I am now a fully qualified Customs officer, retired with a qualification no one needs... all on the basis of "Investors in People". Some Investment...........

Was that in writing?
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Seconded as above, he is really better off out of it.
Looking over your shoulder all the time, knowing that soon it will take 40 years for even a reduced pension,working for direct entry numb-nuts that have never felt a collar, kicked a door in or seen an angry man.
Checking round the room before you can think of telling a joke or making a relevant comment, oh yes, lots to recommend it.
For the more mature of us it appears to be very very close to those bad old morale days of the 70s, but at least there was law enforcement and a bit of fun to be had back then.

It was a bugger when they made it naughty to kick the shit out of IC4s.
 
I'd guess he was applying for the Int Corps, for which the residency criteria comes from DV requirements. The OP might comment on whether that's the case.

As for the the FCO, almost the only recruiting the organisation is doing is for fast track grads (and there aren't many vacancies). Jim30's post on this was right. The FCO gets a very high number of applicants for each post and can afford to pick and choose. Language aptitude is pretty much a given from the start, and the criteria for choosing who to go for gets progressively more selective. The OP's son probably didn't get to the point of residency being an issue but it would have been, since he would require DV to get through the process. Also worth noting a 2.1 from Exeter wouldn't put him in the upper half of quals among recent applicants or close to it, so he may not be quite as attractive an applicant as the OP imagines.

One would expect similar security principles should apply to the Bank of England but we have appointed a Canadian - Mark Carney - to be its head.
 
About a century ago, I stumbled on a quotation from some Victorian geezer (which I didn't commit to memory, and I have several times since wished that I had).

His view - in a nutshell - was that Policing is a job that, to be done properly (let alone well) requires the very best kind of men, but somehow attracts quite another sort.

Posts from serving coppers like HTB, shine a light on how that works, it seems to me.

Explain please?
 
Yes I know that, it's a foot in the door. But if it is something that he really wants to do then what is the problem? The principle of the the thing? Try cashing in your principles when your old and grey and wishing you took a career path you really wanted.

Perhaps the int of getting people to pay is to make sure they get people that are really committed to joining the force.


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The last time I heard something along those lines was from a couple of newspaper correspondents who said: "Integrity doesn't put food on the table".

Are you a journalist, by any chance?

It may be an old-fashioned notion, but once you abandon principles and integrity you are going downhill.

It starts with paying to be able to, possibly, have an interview for a job. That money has to come from somewhere and, if you have to borrow it because you are out of work, more importantly, has to be paid back somehow.

Mention has been made of DVing. In the past, indebtedness was a big no-no and I would suggest that a debt in excess of one year's gross salary (if you are successful) - which most graduates will have - is a severe debt.

If one abandons, as I said, principles and integrity, one is open to offers of brown envelopes containing used notes of an indeterminate value.

Add to that mix, low morale, salary cuts, reductions in TCOS, and you have the conditions necessary for corruption.
 
As for the the FCO, almost the only recruiting the organisation is doing is for fast track grads (and there aren't many vacancies). Jim30's post on this was right. The FCO gets a very high number of applicants for each post and can afford to pick and choose. Language aptitude is pretty much a given from the start, and the criteria for choosing who to go for gets progressively more selective. The OP's son probably didn't get to the point of residency being an issue but it would have been, since he would require DV to get through the process. Also worth noting a 2.1 from Exeter wouldn't put him in the upper half of quals among recent applicants or close to it, so he may not be quite as attractive an applicant as the OP imagines.

Thank you for that. We had already come to that assumption. However, I do not like assumptions: an inductive idea is fine but I always then look for something to confirm.
If your statement comes from knowledge and is not, itself, an assumption, this is precisely the sort of feed-back that people would like to receive when they receive the 'thanks but no thanks' letter. Just leaving people in the dark helps nobody, particularly people who are trying hard to understand what it is that employers actually want from them.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
If one abandons, as I said, principles and integrity, one is open to offers of brown envelopes containing used notes of an indeterminate value.

Add to that mix, low morals, sanity cuts, reductions in spine, and you have the conditions necessary to enter Parliament (corruption.)

It's not 'fixed.'
Merely edited for accuracy.
 
The last time I heard something along those lines was from a couple of newspaper correspondents who said: "Integrity doesn't put food on the table".

Are you a journalist, by any chance?

It may be an old-fashioned notion, but once you abandon principles and integrity you are going downhill.

It starts with paying to be able to, possibly, have an interview for a job. That money has to come from somewhere and, if you have to borrow it because you are out of work, more importantly, has to be paid back somehow.

Mention has been made of DVing. In the past, indebtedness was a big no-no and I would suggest that a debt in excess of one year's gross salary (if you are successful) - which most graduates will have - is a severe debt.

If one abandons, as I said, principles and integrity, one is open to offers of brown envelopes containing used notes of an indeterminate value.

Add to that mix, low morale, salary cuts, reductions in TCOS, and you have the conditions necessary for corruption.

Having to repay a student loan through the current scheme is no bar to successfully passing NSV, or the vetting requirements of a lot of commercial organisations with data/financial security concerns. Besides which, it's more of a tax on earnings over a certain level than a debt.

You do however rightly identify the factors such as poor working conditions and renumeration that are more likely to result in corruption and insider threats though.
 

safc1

Old-Salt
If SF (Student Finance) Loans were considered serious debt and therefore a bar to getting DV how could MI5 (Security Service to be PC), MI6 and the Cheltenham number crunchers ever be able to recruit let alone INT. Also £1000 for a course is a drop in the ocean to the £9000 of students. In CANADA all officers of the TORONTO POLICE must fund their training via a loan from the police federation.

If he wants to be a cop why not get a day job at a supermarket and join the police as a special constable and then transfer over to the regs.
 
To the Op, has your son considered another force? As much as they would like to believe it, the Met isn't the be all and end all in British policing.

Very few forces make you do a pre-entry course which you have to pay for. I'm currently going through the recruitment process for the force I'm a special in and there's been no requirement for that.

I am aware that the Met now recruits a lot of their regular PCs straight from Specials whom have obtained their independent patrol status and have passed an exam and also their PCSOs. So, if his heart is set on the Met then I would recommend he join their specials.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
British ?
 
The last time I heard something along those lines was from a couple of newspaper correspondents who said: "Integrity doesn't put food on the table".

Are you a journalist, by any chance?

It may be an old-fashioned notion, but once you abandon principles and integrity you are going downhill.

It starts with paying to be able to, possibly, have an interview for a job. That money has to come from somewhere and, if you have to borrow it because you are out of work, more importantly, has to be paid back somehow.

Mention has been made of DVing. In the past, indebtedness was a big no-no and I would suggest that a debt in excess of one year's gross salary (if you are successful) - which most graduates will have - is a severe debt.

If one abandons, as I said, principles and integrity, one is open to offers of brown envelopes containing used notes of an indeterminate value.

Add to that mix, low morale, salary cuts, reductions in TCOS, and you have the conditions necessary for corruption.

Try the RCMP
 
Having to repay a student loan through the current scheme is no bar to successfully passing NSV, or the vetting requirements of a lot of commercial organisations with data/financial security concerns. Besides which, it's more of a tax on earnings over a certain level than a debt.

You do however rightly identify the factors such as poor working conditions and renumeration that are more likely to result in corruption and insider threats though.

Clearly it is not a bar, but the fact remains it is still a large amount of money (whether you call it a tax or a loan) that has to be repaid. I would not be too sanguine about thinking that nobody would be tempted by an easier way to repay this money.
 
Clearly it is not a bar, but the fact remains it is still a large amount of money (whether you call it a tax or a loan) that has to be repaid. I would not be too sanguine about thinking that nobody would be tempted by an easier way to repay this money.

Granted, but I still think that it is a minor factor when put next to good old fashioned greed. Some people will never have enough no matter how much they have. I am certainly not aware of an upsurge in fraud or corruption associated with repayment of student debt. I stand by to be corrected though, if evidence is available.

Has your son considered the service police if he is really keen on being a copper?
 

Feenix

Old-Salt
Are Customs and Excise still going? I would have thought that to be a reasonable alternative with those quals and experience.

I really do wish him all the best and hope he wins out. It sounds as if he has the qualities and family backing to do just that. Good Luck
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Are Customs and Excise still going? I would have thought that to be a reasonable alternative with those quals and experience.

I really do wish him all the best and hope he wins out. It sounds as if he has the qualities and family backing to do just that. Good Luck

I dunno, he doesn't sound like a thief.
 

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