Pitfalls of an FAC

#1
I'm shortly about to apply for an FAC, I was thinking of applying for .303 smle and .22LR. I'm currently a probationary member of an HO approved rifle club.

Am I likely to get the above? Is there anything I can do to make it easier?
 
#3
CQMS said:
I'm shortly about to apply for an FAC, I was thinking of applying for .303 smle and .22LR. I'm currently a probationary member of an HO approved rifle club.

Am I likely to get the above? Is there anything I can do to make it easier?
There are five spaces on the form so put in for five rifles - 303, .22 rimfire, .308, .357 or .44 for an underlever, 8mm Mauser.

It doesn't matter if they're not exactly what you want, you can change them later at no cost. Otherwise it'll cost you £25 to add extra arms to the certificate.

You want them all for "Target shooting" you'll have an idea of disciplines by now.

As long as you have some security (do a search on here) and you're not mad or bad you will get them. If plod tries to bullsh t you just say "that is my application, please proceed with it." They can't really refuse it.

Welcome aboard!
 
#4
If you wanted more than one 303 then you could also site differant classes of firearms, SMLE and Long Lee=Classic, No4=Veteran, SMLE and No4 with target sights would be SR"b" and so on, if your HO approved club is LERA then PM me.
 
#5
if the firearms guy says "you can't have more than one of the same calibre cos they're all the same" he is, of course, talking crap. True story, btw!
 
#6
a rifle collection is like a set of golf clubs, you need a different tool for taking different shots.

my suggestions for a balenced set of clubs is......

.22lr for plinking and bunnies.

.223 (5.56mm) for fox and blowing up bunnies and other varmits at long range.

.308 (7.62mm)for large game (deer, boar ect)

the other two slots fill in for shooting sport disciplines that you are wanting to participate in, eg- a second .22lr (hev bbl) for small boring, sorry i ment - small bore target shooting .303 lee enfield for service match, .308 Hev bbl for longe range paper punching (or .338 if you like and can still find a range where your allowed to use one) .357mag or .44 mag lever action for action shoots, .577 muzzle loader for charcoal burning ect ect.


perhaps the shooting sports forums MODs could arrange to have a sticky thread on "getting a FAC" with suggestions on clubs , security and possible firearms choices ect? to help beginers get started?
 
#7
For target accuracy probably better with a .308in than a .303in. A Mauser action is regarded as more consistant than a Lee Enfield and good .308 ammunition is more widely available than .303. A re-barreled P14 might be a good start. It is good advice to have more on the FAC application than you really need. You might want them later, the Police will argue and giving one up at the interview stage makes them feel better.
 
#8
Niamac said:
For target accuracy probably better with a .308in than a .303in. A Mauser action is regarded as more consistant than a Lee Enfield and good .308 ammunition is more widely available than .303. A re-barreled P14 might be a good start.
What! :x

My God man, where's your sense of British shooting heritage?


Bloody newcomers.......
 
#9
Gone the same way as my sense of British motoring heritage. Anschutz, Feinwerkbau and Walther versus the faint echo of BSA; get real.
 
#10
Niamac said:
Gone the same way as my sense of British motoring heritage. Anschutz, Feinwerkbau and Walther versus the faint echo of BSA; get real.
Hmmm, I can see your love of anodised coloured alluminum from here! :D

I think the point I should have made was that ·303 and 7.62mm shoot in two quite separate classes and we assume that CQMS is probably going:

a, Plink with his SMLE

or (hopefully)

b, Shoot it in "Classic" in NRA, HBSA or LERA competitions (if he is a member).

The view that a P14 is a good TR rifle if rebarreled will make some people laugh and others puke at the idea; I however, am of the opinion that it can still hold it's own.
A friend of mine decided that he would enter the Imperial at Bisley last year and did so with a rebarreled P14, he was somewhat nervous at the thought but went ahead and did not disgrace himself.
His NRA "Aunty" (mentor if you like) took the piss out of his choice of rifle and we can only assume that she has been bought up on what we would describe as "modern" TR rifles.

On a side note; Peter Laidler (author/armourer) told a group of us that went to hear a lecture he gave on the L42A1 sniper rifle, that the original thoughts for the barrel had come from a P14 Target Rifle bought in as a test bed for the then new rifle.
Apparently there were two at Warminster and one was given the chop, reading trials paper work after the event the signifigance of the P14 was realised!
 
#11
Henry_Tombs said:
Niamac said:
Gone the same way as my sense of British motoring heritage. Anschutz, Feinwerkbau and Walther versus the faint echo of BSA; get real.
Hmmm, I can see your love of anodised coloured alluminum from here! :D

I think the point I should have made was that ·303 and 7.62mm shoot in two quite separate classes and we assume that CQMS is probably going:

a, Plink with his SMLE

or (hopefully)

b, Shoot it in "Classic" in NRA, HBSA or LERA competitions (if he is a member).

The view that a P14 is a good TR rifle if rebarreled will make some people laugh and others puke at the idea; I however, am of the opinion that it can still hold it's own.
A friend of mine decided that he would enter the Imperial at Bisley last year and did so with a rebarreled P14, he was somewhat nervous at the thought but went ahead and did not disgrace himself.
His NRA "Aunty" (mentor if you like) took the urine out of his choice of rifle and we can only assume that she has been bought up on what we would describe as "modern" TR rifles.

On a side note; Peter Laidler (author/armourer) told a group of us that went to hear a lecture he gave on the L42A1 sniper rifle, that the original thoughts for the barrel had come from a P14 Target Rifle bought in as a test bed for the then new rifle.
Apparently there were two at Warminster and one was given the chop, reading trials paper work after the event the signifigance of the P14 was realised!

P14 target rifles are probably all that 90% of target shooters actually need - the accuracy margin of mega-bucks TR rifles is lost on most people.

These are really bargain rifles; pity nobody wants "first generation" target rifles these days. My stock will probably end up getting scrapped.

 
#12
Really? That would be a terrible shame. Aren't replacement stocks available?
 
#13
Actually 1st generation TR is one of the few things that interest me these days; I think the trouble is that so many of them are anonymous conversions and it's only the named variety that get the attention.
The bottom one in the picture, is that a Fulton conversion?




.
 
#14
I have seen a P14 with a modern stainless bbl do a 50.10 at 300yds. However, if you can shoot that with a P14, then you WILL benefit from an RPA!

Also saw several 50's with No.4 conversions (mostly with a 1-piece stock in Canada though...
 
#15
It's the No 4 conversions that interest me, I think the best one I have seen was made by a long since retired gun dealer in Cheltenham called Geoff Hart, he also did a few P14 conversions as well.
 
#16
Henry_Tombs said:
Actually 1st generation TR is one of the few things that interest me these days; I think the trouble is that so many of them are anonymous conversions and it's only the named variety that get the attention.
The bottom one in the picture, is that a Fulton conversion?

.
Yes - bottom rifle is a Fultons conversion. The others are anonymous - shame they were cut, as they have perfect stock markings and volley sights.

Full-length military wood can be found for P14s, but the barrels are quite scarce. Its uneconomic to restore them, as there are plenty of normal .303 P14s around....


 
#17
stoatman said:
I have seen a P14 with a modern stainless bbl do a 50.10 at 300yds. However, if you can shoot that with a P14, then you WILL benefit from an RPA!

Also saw several 50's with No.4 conversions (mostly with a 1-piece stock in Canada though...
Although the 7.62mm heavy barrel rifles are very good, its surprising what the old .303 can do as well. I picked this manky old No4 SRb up at an auction.



Doesn't look like much, but see how it shoots....



6 shots through one hole at 25 yds. The two outers are 5/16" centre-to-centre, the rest are less than 3/16". The guy with an F Class and monster scope on the next firing point got a worse group... LOL!
 
#18
Well I agree with you that P14 is a pretty good start as long as it has been well looked after and I see 4(T) is in the same camp. As for myself I have eschewed anodised aluminium and shoot small-bore with an Anschutz 1813, one of the good barrels. Anyway the P14 is pretty modern in comparison with my full bore which is a Swedish Carl Gustav from 1898 (re-barreled in the '70s for target rifle). It shoots better than me and being light has fair old recoil.
 
#19
Niamac said:
Well I agree with you that P14 is a pretty good start as long as it has been well looked after and I see 4(T) is in the same camp. As for myself I have eschewed anodised aluminium and shoot small-bore with an Anschutz 1813, one of the good barrels. Anyway the P14 is pretty modern in comparison with my full bore which is a Swedish Carl Gustav from 1898 (re-barreled in the '70s for target rifle). It shoots better than me and being light has fair old recoil.
Its an interesting fact that Swedish Mausers over the years have very often won HBSA TR shoots in past years.

I just wonder how much 4(T) wants for that Fulton converted P14? :D
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
I have a target P14 in 7.62 and with handloads and a good wind coach got me a V bull first shot at 1000 yards on stickledown. I rescued and restored a P14 to .303 that had been converted to .410, it won me a few medals in iron sighted classic comps. A good rifle.
I thought MDN was doing a sticky for FAC applications?
If you are interested in sporting use then I can help, I run sporting rifle courses for everything up to deer and am recognised as a suitable trainer and mentor for new shooters by local and 3 other plods.
Advice I do for free!
 

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