PIRBRIGHT MAYHEM-stroppy stackers

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by ein__soldat, Jul 18, 2002.

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  1. We've all seen what's in the papers, but is anyone willing to give some inside info on what is going on at the RLC depot at Pirbright.

    Talking to an RLC train driver the other day, (yes really, one of about 5) he said it was just shocking and that the loggys are so badly organised when it came to the depot.

    Apparently, because of the number of different trades, recruits go on different training courses at different times which means that there are loads of young bucks just hanging around with nothing to do which leads to all the trouble.

    Of course the seniors then become the masters of the swamp which ends up with an oppresive and negative start to anyone's career.

    This does not bode well for the future of loggy effort which, all comlaints aside, is what we all rely on when the brown stuff hits the whirly thing.

    Any stackers want to comment. What really is going on and what do you think should be done???
  2. Don't know about this case, but can identify with the above.

    As an AAC recruit in the mid '80's I was at Leconfield (then an RCT traing centre) and experienced the same feeling. Lots of people on different courses, a high percentage of recruits near the end of training. Loads of hanging around  - for enough people to make up course numbers, being held back so that you can form a troop for young officers to practice on (which was a laugh).  Apart from a very odd morning parade taken by a deranged welsh guardman, there was no cohension to the place, and you could easily get lost. I was straight out of juniors and really struggled with it.

    As I say I don't know much about the above case but there has to be something going on and it needs sorting out.
  3. Heard a rumour from SEME Bordon that recruits that had finished trade training were having to wait 6 - 12 months for a posting.
    They have nearly a Coy worth of soldiers in Holding Platoon.
  4. Deepcut itself is now where Sup Con, Sup spec and Pioneer trades are taught and the recruits there are slotted in at leccy when available.

    Drivers (and chefs) are held at St Omer brks and they basically wait there before leccy and wait there after leccy.  Whilst here they are at the mercy of the training team.  I'm sure theyd argue they do their best considering the DS to recruit ratio but I have heard quite the contrary from young lads left to stag-on and basically skive.  I beleive the potential to train is such that we could drastically improve the post- phase 2 product, if something creative forms of training were introduced to those in holding establishments.

    At this point soldiers are at their most enthusiastic and most receptive its a shame this isnt capitalised on.
  5. I know the OC of that Holding Platoon.

    She says that the majority of the recruits are so disillusioned that they can't wait to leave (even before they've been posted to their first unit).

    She spends most of her time sorting G1 issues especially court appearances.

    Hardly a good start :-[
  6. Send em to the infantry''''
  7. Why waste the training? ;D
  8. Then you would have to put them through Phase 2 Inf training, someone needs to get a grip of trade training units, they are a bloody shambles and have been for a long time, when I joined up and was told but my sect comd that my ten weeks basic was going to be the best time I had in the army I thought he was barking, he wasn't, he was right!

    I don't claim to have the solution but the ammount of time wasted while troops waiting for courses is criminal. The Army claim to be investors in people (yes that little IIP symbol you proudly print on literature) but fail at it dismally.

    If you want somewhere to start improving stop sub contracting training out, what do Vosper Thornicroft know about ES support and more importantly what concern is it to them if the Army is short of tradesmen??
  9. I agree that it is criminal that so many youngsters are kept in training units doing nothing.  It appears that the biggest bottleneck is driver training, particularly HGV training.

    Why can't Soldiers be posted and learn in Units?  Yes, this is technically a training defficiency which would probably mean a soldier is in his/her first posting without trade pay but surely this is a far better scenario than the soldier sitting on his/her a**e getting both Jiffed and dis-illusioned (also without trade pay).  Anyway, what is one more trade difficiency amongst all the rest that soldiers leave training units with anyway?

    Retention problems ?  They appear to start at the very beginning of a soldiers career.  I believe that Vermin has got it spot on.  IIP is a complete joke.
  10. There isn't only mayhem at Pirbright - there are 1000 (yes 1% of the Army) in a holding platoon being looked after by 3 Pl Comd's in SEME Borden (REME Phase 2 trg centre).

    We really need these Craftsmen out in the real field army, yet Vosper Thorneycroft cannot get it right!! Somnething needs to be done urgently to remedy the situation - it's really sad to see so much potential go to waste.

    :-[ :-[ :-[
  11. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    One thousand at Bordon?  That's amazing, and very disturbing! Where do they put them all?  What do they do?

    If this is the case in REME, what about the other Corps?  How many at Pirbright, Blandford, etc?  

    If we could get enough data, a short letter to a few interested MPs (and the press) could have a very salutory effect - writing to MPs does actually do something, take it from me, especially if it gets into the tabloids!
  12. I think  you'll find Old Snowy, that depends entirely on the rank of the correspondent.... :-[

    I took that route to highlight a problem, as was my right.

    Needless to say, the resultant sh1tstorm went all the way up, and I mean ALL (I was very reliably informed) and all the way down to little me again........

    At one point , I really thought I was going to get CGS on the phone.

    Various dire retributions threatened not just to me, but to my headsheds. All because we highlighted a decision, that had wider implications for Army, but of course, we didn't know that decisions had been made, long in advance of informing us, and there were some very powerful peoples interests at stake.

    Sometimes, you end up with the feeling, that variuos elements treat the Army, like it's the early 19th century... :mad:
  13. The idea that we should train recuits to drive "in units" is dreadful.  If only all (or even half) the recruits arriving in my Armoured Inf Bn could drive the Battalion's life would be made 20% easier.  I spend my life juggling drivers to task and trying by hook and crook to get some more trained.  The end result is that the few drivers we have get worked to death and bored (simultaneously) and sign off.  A soldier who can't drive is bugger all use to anyone.  Train them up before they get here!
  14. OldSnowy,

    To answer one of your points - the Soldiers Awaiting Trade Training (SATTs!) at Blandford were many about a year ago. 'Many' ranged from between a few to a good few hundred at some points dependent on when course were going to start. It fluctuated daily.

    I often wondered why this was sooooooo difficult to organise as surely we all know when people are going to come out of Phase 1 and need Phase 2.

    Ever heard of course programming ??

    ...but then someone high ranking (AG, OC ATRA, 2IC ATRA ?? etc) switched their brains on and thought about  'how much of their budget etc was being wasted by this pool of sitting manpower doing nothing'.

    We all know how keen ATRA is to shift the blame, sorry, financial responsibility onto units as soon as possible - eg training deficiencies and income generation.

    It took a money issue, as ever, to make the headshed think of a better way of doing things and life has improved for the Phase 2 guy/girl in Blandford.

    Another fine example of the way the ATRA system seems to work is as follows.

    R SIGNALS offrs used to do a short attachment prior to their YOs course and then get posted. ATRA goes 'oops - too much fat here - let's farm the 2Lts out to units straight from RMAS and then they can be on the strength of the said unit and, therefore, on their budget and not ATRA's straight away.' Hooray - cost saving !!

    ...but 2Lts now:

    1. come on the course having taken over a Tp already
    2. with a pile of CRs to write whilst on the course
    3. with a constant string of messages to phone units
    4. with a stream of summonses from OCs/COs ( tends to be COs more than OCs) to attend the Freedom of Loamshire Parade which, after all, is only a 700 mile round trip from Blandford)

    ...but this is the best bit..

    5. and the guys from Germany/Cyprus get residual LOA and all the others get LSSA/GYH(P) etc

    So a nice little swerve by ATRA to save money, ie from their budget, means that the overall wages bill of the Army goes up !!! ???

    Me ? I've got a CV to write (which will include no more ATRA units for the rest of my time )  ;)
  15. Accept the Residual LOA, but don't you have to have served for two years to get LSSA or GYH(D) in which case they don't get this cash.  However isn't this worse?  I mean would you want to be parted from your creature comforts for 5 months?  I suggest that because they are not posted to Blandford, that they are probably not entitled to MFO!! Arrse!!