Pioneer Trade

#2
whats the rumour or reason for the comment?
 
#3
From what I see of the pioneers they have just changed roles when I joined up if a loggie regiment went on tour all the extra jobs (MBLU, dog handling etc) were done by people in that regiment. Just recently I've notice alot more pioneers doing this kind of work. (Assuming of course they never did that kind of thing before and I just never saw them)
 
#4
it just strikes me that, the corps is once again looking at reducing its trades to the absolute minimum. Whilst a pioneer can do all the things mentioned, so can a sup spec / con (as well as their normal stuff). so it seems that they might just take out the chunks in order to save yet more cash and capability.
 

untallguy

Old-Salt
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#5
stacker1 said:
From what I see of the pioneers they have just changed roles when I joined up if a loggie regiment went on tour all the extra jobs (MBLU, dog handling etc) were done by people in that regiment. Just recently I've notice alot more pioneers doing this kind of work. (Assuming of course they never did that kind of thing before and I just never saw them)
MBLU - now OHT (Operational Hygiene Troop) - has been a Pioneer function for a while now. They took the job off the Supply trades (as was) some 4-5 years ago - my understanding at the time (I could be wrong) was that the Supply trades were struggling to man the posts.

Dog handling has been been a CEQ available to Pioneers for a long time. Originally, it was because of the security function that they had in Cyprus. I would imagine that they are doing it to back up RAVC as everybody seems to want dogs these days.
 
#7
As far as i can see the Pioneer is still in massive demand being a LAND asset and used to augment infantry, ENGR , and LSR on operations worldwide at the moment. I dont think we will be lost in the ether that is the RLC just yet , i do forsee the Regiment being disbanded and SQN's being attached to larger RLC Regiments but as for the trade dissapering the day that happens is the day i put my heels together in the Corp RSM's intray and place the last few nails in my career's coffin.
 
#8
untallguy said:
stacker1 said:
From what I see of the pioneers they have just changed roles when I joined up if a loggie regiment went on tour all the extra jobs (MBLU, dog handling etc) were done by people in that regiment. Just recently I've notice alot more pioneers doing this kind of work. (Assuming of course they never did that kind of thing before and I just never saw them)
MBLU - now OHT (Operational Hygiene Troop) - has been a Pioneer function for a while now. They took the job off the Supply trades (as was) some 4-5 years ago - my understanding at the time (I could be wrong) was that the Supply trades were struggling to man the posts.

Dog handling has been been a CEQ available to Pioneers for a long time. Originally, it was because of the security function that they had in Cyprus. I would imagine that they are doing it to back up RAVC as everybody seems to want dogs these days.
I not to sure if we were struggling to fill the posts (I'm a dog handler and what was called MBLU op). I do know it wasn't looking that good on our CRs Those jobs are not linked to my trade so when the reports come out I was at a disavantage to other people. Hopefully it will be better for pioneers especially if their roles in the future tend to be more attachments to other units.
 

untallguy

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Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#9
stacker1 said:
untallguy said:
stacker1 said:
From what I see of the pioneers they have just changed roles when I joined up if a loggie regiment went on tour all the extra jobs (MBLU, dog handling etc) were done by people in that regiment. Just recently I've notice alot more pioneers doing this kind of work. (Assuming of course they never did that kind of thing before and I just never saw them)
MBLU - now OHT (Operational Hygiene Troop) - has been a Pioneer function for a while now. They took the job off the Supply trades (as was) some 4-5 years ago - my understanding at the time (I could be wrong) was that the Supply trades were struggling to man the posts.

Dog handling has been been a CEQ available to Pioneers for a long time. Originally, it was because of the security function that they had in Cyprus. I would imagine that they are doing it to back up RAVC as everybody seems to want dogs these days.
I not to sure if we were struggling to fill the posts (I'm a dog handler and what was called MBLU op). I do know it wasn't looking that good on our CRs Those jobs are not linked to my trade so when the reports come out I was at a disavantage to other people. Hopefully it will be better for pioneers especially if their roles in the future tend to be more attachments to other units.
Ooops: my apologies.
 
#10
I think you'll see the role go to an infantry bn..................
 
#11
Bubbles_Barker said:
I think you'll see the role go to an infantry bn..................
Behave! The Inf are stretched to the limit at the moment and this and only this has been the saving grace for the pioneer trade this far. A far more likely scenario is to see the Pioneers reamin in their present role whereby they can augment the inf as required. As soon as the burden is no longer causing 'stretch' then you can bet your bottom dollar that the pioneer will be marching off to a cost cutting measure in the annals of history.

Pioneers are not the only trade that should be bobbing it's pants at the moment and you should be asking yourselves what is it that you do that can't be done by A N other ? DRLC are busting their balls keeping the AT trade at the mo and much as it pains me to say it, if they are fighting to keep one of the premiere trades in house, then us 'others' should be looking long and hard in the mirror.
 
#12
DRLC's real drive is to reduce costs - both Mr Broons need the cash to bail themselves out of commitments they cannot meet. Any oppurtuny to "outsource" any ttade or function that does not deplete military capability will be taken like a flash. Hence "peacetime / depot" AT functions, routine Bks guarding and other logistics roles that can be done by civilians will be scrutinised. Pioneers are great, but what they do is in many cases easily outsourced.
 
#13
is it true there were only two (!) promotions of pioneer full screw to stripey last year?
 
#14
qman said:
Bubbles_Barker said:
I think you'll see the role go to an infantry bn..................
Behave! The Inf are stretched to the limit at the moment and this and only this has been the saving grace for the pioneer trade this far. A far more likely scenario is to see the Pioneers reamin in their present role whereby they can augment the inf as required. As soon as the burden is no longer causing 'stretch' then you can bet your bottom dollar that the pioneer will be marching off to a cost cutting measure in the annals of history.

Pioneers are not the only trade that should be bobbing it's pants at the moment and you should be asking yourselves what is it that you do that can't be done by A N other ? DRLC are busting their balls keeping the AT trade at the mo and much as it pains me to say it, if they are fighting to keep one of the premiere trades in house, then us 'others' should be looking long and hard in the mirror.
Interesting! My spies are in HQ DRLC....................

The rationale behind this is an old one - that another 'trade' for an inf bn would secure said inf bn's future, rather than 23 Regt's who, let's face it, are not going to win a contest against an inf bn when it comes to a 'who's going to get disbanded' competition.

May be true, may not be. But hey, I do like the idea of outsourcing ATOs - maybe we can get the guys and girls from Spooks last night?
 
#15
Outsource ATOs , unlikely the Sappers are still trying to be The Lead corps in IED management, no I think ATOs will stay albeit far fewer in number and possibly more crosstrained across all 3 services plus police. Pioneers still retain a clear function, but they need to somehow be seen as more dynamic than at present. That might mean better educated blokes and so you create a spiral!!
 
#16
Outstanding said:
Outsource ATOs , unlikely the Sappers are still trying to be The Lead corps in IED management, no I think ATOs will stay albeit far fewer in number and possibly more crosstrained across all 3 services plus police. Pioneers still retain a clear function, but they need to somehow be seen as more dynamic than at present. That might mean better educated blokes and so you create a spiral!!
I have it on good authority that DRLC are keen to keep the AT aspect due to a number of reasons but mainly and I quote 'they are a useful recruiting tool'. If DRLC do lose the fight with the sappers then it won't be long before the AT aspect that remains (after IED buggers orf) will be absorbed by trade 2000.......I mean supplier ......I mean combat loggie

How do you make the Pioneer trade 'more dynamic'? It's rather like trying to sell the RAF Regt as something other than a glorified guard service. They are trying to be more dynamic and I reckon if twern't for the QCS they'd be a goner too (watch this space).
 
#19
qman said:
Outstanding said:
I have it on good authority that DRLC are keen to keep the AT aspect due to a number of reasons but mainly and I quote 'they are a useful recruiting tool'. If DRLC do lose the fight with the sappers then it won't be long before the AT aspect that remains (after IED buggers orf) will be absorbed by trade 2000.......I mean supplier ......I mean combat loggie
How do they come to that conclusion, when the trade itself is Pinch Point? If they were that concerned about it they would be chucking tens of thousands of pounds at us as they have with Pilots and certain Signals trades.
 
#20
qman said:
Outstanding said:
Outsource ATOs , unlikely the Sappers are still trying to be The Lead corps in IED management, no I think ATOs will stay albeit far fewer in number and possibly more crosstrained across all 3 services plus police. Pioneers still retain a clear function, but they need to somehow be seen as more dynamic than at present. That might mean better educated blokes and so you create a spiral!!
I have it on good authority that DRLC are keen to keep the AT aspect due to a number of reasons but mainly and I quote 'they are a useful recruiting tool'. If DRLC do lose the fight with the sappers then it won't be long before the AT aspect that remains (after IED buggers orf) will be absorbed by trade 2000.......I mean supplier ......I mean combat loggie

How do you make the Pioneer trade 'more dynamic'? It's rather like trying to sell the RAF Regt as something other than a glorified guard service. They are trying to be more dynamic and I reckon if twern't for the QCS they'd be a goner too (watch this space).
So you'll be a old school stacker then? I suppose the clues in the name. I don't see DRLC lying down quite so easily myself.

And where will IEDD 'bugger orf' to?
 
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