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PIAT

IIRC that was a UOR: a hastily purchased Israeli manufactured muzzle-launched bullet-trap rifle grenade, rather than a product of the official (and by then moribund/unproductive) CLAW programme, with whose acronym it was saddled, which cost a fortune, and delivered fvckall, leaving a capability gap that we have rediscovered in every war since 1918.

But it was a long time ago, and my few contacts who knew what was happening had by then moved on, so I wouldn't claim to be an expert witness, and will happily be corrected.
A mate of mine who was actually present when it happened said it was CLAW. He might have been mistaken. Either way, it shouldn't have happened.
 
IIRC that was a UOR: a hastily purchased Israeli manufactured muzzle-launched bullet-trap rifle grenade, rather than a product of the official (and by then moribund/unproductive) CLAW programme with whose acronym it was saddled, which cost a fortune, and delivered fvckall, leaving a capability gap that we have rediscovered in every war since 1918.

But it was a long time ago, and my few contacts who knew what was happening had by then moved on, so I wouldn't claim to be an expert witness, and will happily be corrected.

According to an older ARRSE thread, the weapon in service in 91 was French. It was replaced by an Israeli model that remained in service until the underslung grenade launcher was purchased. @HE117 is quoted on the earlier thread.
 
A mate of mine who was actually present when it happened said it was CLAW. He might have been mistaken. Either way, it shouldn't have happened.
I don't disagree.

BUT - I'm of the understanding that at that time, in that theatre, the "CLAW" label was slapped on a dodgy product purchased in a hurry - possibly/probably/actually-most-likely as a face-saving measure because a hugely expensive development project commissioned to equip Brit infantry with a CLose Assault Weapon had failed to deliver anything more than profits for the arms company whose bid got them signed up to spend forever trying to deliver a weapon that met the D Inf requirement by defying the laws of physics.

If you want another example of that kind of stupidity, about the same vintage, I could sketch in a few sentences why the 50mm mortar became a dog's breakfast of a weapon.
 
According to an older ARRSE thread, the weapon in service in 91 was French. It was replaced by an Israeli model that remained in service until the underslung grenade launcher was purchased. @HE117 is quoted on the earlier thread.
Again, neither weapon was the product of any work of the CLAW project itself.

And, thereby, evidence of the abject failure of that project.​
 

tiv

LE
According to an older ARRSE thread, the weapon in service in 91 was French. It was replaced by an Israeli model that remained in service until the underslung grenade launcher was purchased. @HE117 is quoted on the earlier thread.
You are correct, it was made by Luchaire. I may have this wrong but ISTR it did not have the required two independant safety features which lead to the subsequent competition that produced the Israeli grenade.

The Luchaire was rushed through the series of OB Trials at the time of the Gulf War.
 

Londo

LE
.

If you want another example of that kind of stupidity, about the same vintage, I could sketch in a few sentences why the 50mm mortar became a dog's breakfast of a weapon.
I for one would love to know more if you don't mind .
Not for the sake of argument but I just find you're comment about it of interest .
Not heard anything bad about it before so would be great to hear from someone knowledgeable with a different opinion .
 
Just found this picture, and made a funny noise (along the lines of "hunnngh!")

Captioned as "Private collection 1970s"

I want that!
 
And here's the book cover:


In relation to that I've been invited to give talks on the subject, and do a book signing shortly after release. This will be at the War & Peace show next year.

Details here:

It's a talk both days, Likely one on the Bombard/Hedgehog/General Spigotry on the Friday, and one on the PIAT on the Saturday. There'll be a Q&A session, and then a book signing. If there's enough people that we can't get everything done, I'll hang about afterwards.

Even if the talk is as dull as dishwater, I'd point out this is the first time I've given a talk, so if nothing else there's the watching me crash and burn in a panic as Powerpoint fails comedy effect.
 
And here's the book cover:


In relation to that I've been invited to give talks on the subject, and do a book signing shortly after release. This will be at the War & Peace show next year.

Details here:

It's a talk both days, Likely one on the Bombard/Hedgehog/General Spigotry on the Friday, and one on the PIAT on the Saturday. There'll be a Q&A session, and then a book signing. If there's enough people that we can't get everything done, I'll hang about afterwards.

Even if the talk is as dull as dishwater, I'd point out this is the first time I've given a talk, so if nothing else there's the watching me crash and burn in a panic as Powerpoint fails comedy effect.

What’s a ‘panzer-stuka’? Is it some sort of up-armoured dive bomber?

If it’s not to late I’d replace the - with an &
 
Incidentally Luchaire was a UOR but for Op BANNER after the Gren Gds met an armoured van in the XMG area and found that 5.56mm Ball couldn't penetrate the makeshift protection.
 
I was there and I know all of the story,

The thing that always worries me is the difference between grenades that need a ballistite cartridge and bullet-trap/bullet through grenades.

I’m mindful here of the way that we trained on our own stuff (pre GW1 at least) and didn’t know much about other people’s kit.

There was an ex AT on the post gulf RO contract that lost fingers because he pulled the pin on a soviet instantaneous grenade fuze (they were pulling the pins and bunging them because it was the end of the day etc...).

I could easily imagine a scenario (not saying it happened here) where a lad who’s only been trained on a bullet-trap grenade comes a cropper when getting his hands on a ballistite grenade. Such things must be a real risk when living in UOR land...
 

Londo

LE
The thing that always worries me is the difference between grenades that need a ballistite cartridge and bullet-trap/bullet through grenades.

I’m mindful here of the way that we trained on our own stuff (pre GW1 at least) and didn’t know much about other people’s kit.

There was an ex AT on the post gulf RO contract that lost fingers because he pulled the pin on a soviet instantaneous grenade fuze (they were pulling the pins and bunging them because it was the end of the day etc...).

I could easily imagine a scenario (not saying it happened here) where a lad who’s only been trained on a bullet-trap grenade comes a cropper when getting his hands on a ballistite grenade. Such things must be a real risk when living in UOR land...
Remember reading a book a few years back about a small group of British mercenaries fighting in the Balkans somewhere when it was nasty there .
Twice in the heat of battle they had individuals firing rifle grenades without using a ballistite cartridge .
Both the individuals sustained serious facial injuries
 
What’s a ‘panzer-stuka’? Is it some sort of up-armoured dive bomber?

If it’s not to late I’d replace the - with an &
I guess you'll have to Buy the book to find out!:safe:


Blacker spent no small amount of time ranting about the 'Panzer-Stuka menace', and how if the bloody civil servants/War Office/The lady down the local shop had just listened to him, we'd not be in the mess we were in now! Although how the Arbalest would have changed matters, I'm not entirely sure, but he was very very certain it would have. The 'Panzer-Stuka Menace' was what he called Blitzkrieg, before there was the German word in common usage in the west.

When myself and the publisher were discussing the book title, they got very excited at that term. Basically, if you're selling a book, and can get certain key words, such as Hitler, or either Panzer or Stuka in the title you'll appear in more search engine results. Simply because there's an awful lot of wehraboo's out there. Better results means more sales.
 
Remember reading a book a few years back about a small group of British mercenaries fighting in the Balkans somewhere when it was nasty there .
Twice in the heat of battle they had individuals firing rifle grenades without using a ballistite cartridge .
Both the individuals sustained serious facial injuries

Yes the Yugo grenades have a ballistite cartridge stored in the tail behind a little plastic cap. It’s one of the recognition features of an unfired grenade.

I met some of those mercenaries in the Balkans. It was a walt-rich environment :)
 
I guess you'll have to Buy the book to find out!:safe:


Blacker spent no small amount of time ranting about the 'Panzer-Stuka menace', and how if the bloody civil servants/War Office/The lady down the local shop had just listened to him, we'd not be in the mess we were in now! Although how the Arbalest would have changed matters, I'm not entirely sure, but he was very very certain it would have. The 'Panzer-Stuka Menace' was what he called Blitzkrieg, before there was the German word in common usage in the west.

When myself and the publisher were discussing the book title, they got very excited at that term. Basically, if you're selling a book, and can get certain key words, such as Hitler, or either Panzer or Stuka in the title you'll appear in more search engine results. Simply because there's an awful lot of wehraboo's out there. Better results means more sales.

Excellent story which puts it all in context!

I hope it’s in the book :)

I’ll definitely be buying it...
 

Londo

LE
Yes the Yugo grenades have a ballistite cartridge stored in the tail behind a little plastic cap. It’s one of the recognition features of an unfired grenade.

I met some of those mercenaries in the Balkans. It was a walt-rich environment :)
That I can understand going by some of the things mentioned in the book .
Just looked in my man cave and I still have the book
War Dogs by Keith Cori-Jones
Must be twenty years or more since I read it .

I now have a memory bubbling to the surface of a newspaper story about a similar group of Brits fighting on the muslim side who fell foul of some mujahideen or Chetniks who accused them of being spies and tortured them to death .
Not a nice place to spend your holidays :(
 
I now have a memory bubbling to the surface of a newspaper story about a similar group of Brits fighting on the muslim side who fell foul of some mujahideen or Chetniks who accused them of being spies and tortured them to death .
Not a nice place to spend your holidays :(
I remember that. I think there was another one, at least.


"Untrained idiots and psychopaths..."
 

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