PIAT

Bloody hell. I'm just on the final few pages of A Street in Arnhem by Kershaw, the lack of PIAT ammo when the King Tigers appeared toward the very end of the siege around Oosterbeck & no bugger could find any.
It could be from many sources. IE a lost container, or a forgotten ammo stash of the capture of the area afterwards.
 
I suspect those are .30 calibre Marlin Machine Guns (rather than "Martin"). The Marlin was an improved version of the Colt-Browning 1895 machine gun, fitted with a more conventional gas system instead of an exposed lever which flew up and down below the barrel. The original Colt-Browning was also known as the "potato digger".

The Marlin was a very late WWI development in the US, and was used in some of their (French made) aircraft. It was superseded after the war by the better known 1919 model of Browning machine gun.

I'm not too familiar with the details of the history of the Marlin gun, but I would not be surprised if the US dug them out of a warehouse and sold them to the UK early in WWII when the UK was desperate to buy anything that would go "bang", and when the UK no longer needed them they passed them on to the Soviets. They no doubt would have been useful as light AA machineguns for use on ships or trains or other applications like that where resupply of ammunition wasn't a big problem.
2 types of Marlin guns used

aircraft type and Tank (with a aluminum radiator attached






0. They were indeed sent to the Homeguard and used on merchant ships for AA defence

 
I'm no expert but not much of what he said is correct.

For a start the explosive was where the sawdust is, and what he called the " shaped charge" was the copper liner cone and the blue and yellow bands are for a standard live bomb.
 

QRK2

LE
I'm no expert but not much of what he said is correct.

For a start the explosive was where the sawdust is, and what he called the " shaped charge" was the copper liner cone and the blue and yellow bands are for a standard live bomb.
I rather thought that (and it lead me to doubt what he has said elsewhere) but what else was wrong?
 

HE117

LE
I'm no expert but not much of what he said is correct.

For a start the explosive was where the sawdust is, and what he called the " shaped charge" was the copper liner cone and the blue and yellow bands are for a standard live bomb.
Yep,

Yellow and blue signified a TNT fill.. the red band is a filling ring to indicate the presence of live explosive. The PIAT bomb was filled with a number of fills including PE808.

The correct designation of that bomb is an "instructional" round and should have been marked up INERT. That is not an official inert round.. it has been manufactured from a live round.. the main filling may have gone, however we do not know the status of the fuzes or the propelling charge which are difficult to remove.

The other term for these items is "stolen property" as they were never put on the open market. My approach would be to inert it with half a pound of PE..
 

offog

LE
I rather thought that (and it lead me to doubt what he has said elsewhere) but what else was wrong?
His google ability is very poor.

10 seconds of research on google tells me that the blue markings are TNT (light green 808 ) and the yellow does not mean inert.

The more knowledgeable will be along soon with the correct colour coding.

edited to add- as I said the more knowledgeable will be along soon with the correct info. :-D
 
His google ability is very poor.

10 seconds of research on google tells me that the blue markings are TNT (light green 808 ) and the yellow does not mean inert.

The more knowledgeable will be along soon with the correct colour coding.

edited to add- as I said the more knowledgeable will be along soon with the correct info. :-D
It’s one of those ‘little knowledge’ things.

In the 1960s NATO standardised body colours and bands, and I’ve witnessed people trying to apply those to non-NATO ammunition (this led to a massive false alarm when stockpiles of ‘chemical’ rounds were found in Kuwait in 1991, only for me to tell them that grey is a ‘non-significant body colour’ for Warsaw Pact ammo).
 
The PIAT bomb was filled with a number of fills including PE808.
I have 808 for Mk.I, Mk.IA and Mk.II.
RDX/TNT mix for Mk.III
RDX for Mk.IV

Deftly sidestepping the horror of the shaped charge/sawdust thing, he made the usual mistake of attributing he weapon to Jefferis.
But the thing that was mos concerning was that weapon was clearly fused, and he kept taping the fuse. Considering I'd read HE117's comments before watching, I was a bit twitchy waiting for the "POPohfuck" moment.
It is curious that the nose cone was crimped into place. The other PIAT round I've handled and disassembled, the nose cone was loose. Equally the cone was curious. All the docs I have say steel, but it didn't look very steely.
 
I have 808 for Mk.I, Mk.IA and Mk.II.
RDX/TNT mix for Mk.III
RDX for Mk.IV

Deftly sidestepping the horror of the shaped charge/sawdust thing, he made the usual mistake of attributing he weapon to Jefferis.
But the thing that was mos concerning was that weapon was clearly fused, and he kept taping the fuse. Considering I'd read HE117's comments before watching, I was a bit twitchy waiting for the "POPohfuck" moment.
It is curious that the nose cone was crimped into place. The other PIAT round I've handled and disassembled, the nose cone was loose. Equally the cone was curious. All the docs I have say steel, but it didn't look very steely.
I'm not an expert in these things, but I have my doubts about the provenance of the PIAT bomb he was holding. It looks more like something a collector would have rather than a professional organisation. I watched the video and didn't recall seeing any clear markings that it was deactivated, and the loose sawdust filling was quite odd in my view for something that was supposedly to be used as a training aid.

He said it was part of a training kit formerly belonging to a German government organisation, but now in the hands of a private collector. He also said that such kits when on the market are rarely complete. If it came from a collector, I would not be surprised if the contents of the kit had been filled out a bit by home-made deacts.

Vic has been doing a series on deactivated weapons recently. I suspect that he is currently involvement in identifying and evaluating deactivated weapons for someone who is buying them up and shipping them abroad for resale ahead of the new EU deactivated weapons regulations, or perhaps he's doing it on his own behalf. I should note that I have no evidence for this, I am just making some presumptions based on some things he said in previous episodes. If this is the case though, then the person who currently owns this set of kit has more incentive than usual to misrepresent the provenance of the items in question.

There was a case a while ago in Canada where a "deactivated" grenade went "bang" during a training session to the surprise and dismay of many of those present. My personal feelings about items such as a "deactivated" PIAT bomb from a private collection would be to treat it very gingerly.
 
The clearest image I have found to date of a boat-mounted PIAT in French Indochina. 1950.

Source: http://flottille.amphibie.free.fr/indochinephotos.htm

5cb2489acb7b54993d96d97eeeac6f8c.jpg


The main riverine craft used by France in the first Indochina War were converted - up-armoured and up-gunned - landing craft. I (italics) think (italics) the craft shown is an LCM. You can see the front of the PIAT trigger-guard sitting in some sort of mounting/pivot.

This is a close, side, angle of the photo posted much earlier of the same type of mount:

lcm24_10.jpg
 
Last edited:
The clearest image I have found to date of a boat-mounted PIAT in French Indochina. 1950.

Source: http://flottille.amphibie.free.fr/indochinephotos.htm

View attachment 431744

The main riverine craft used by France in the first Indochina War were converted - up-armoured and up-gunned - landing craft. I (italics) think (italics) the craft shown is an LCM. You can see the front of the PIAT trigger-guard sitting in some sort of mounting/pivot.

This is a close, side, angle of the photo posted much earlier of the same type of mount:

View attachment 431747
Has anyone come across accounts of its use in Indochina?
 
Has anyone come across accounts of its use in Indochina?
I posted a few quotes about use earlier in the thread. I will find them this evening and re-post - mainly quotes from crews of 'Dinassaut' (riverine) forces. The PIAT was used as a mortar and one of the accounts mentions it being used against Viet Minh bunkers. There is a quote about it later being replaced by rifle grenades which had a more predictable trajectory.
 
I posted a few quotes about use earlier in the thread. I will find them this evening and re-post - mainly quotes from crews of 'Dinassaut' (riverine) forces. The PIAT was used as a mortar and one of the accounts mentions it being used against Viet Minh bunkers. There is a quote about it later being replaced by rifle grenades which had a more predictable trajectory.
If they're already on here I can dig them out when it becomes important.

Thanks!
 

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