Photos that make you think.

Different place but from the same trip to Berlin, the remains of a Stuka in the Deutsche Technik Museum, there wasn't much info in English on it so in line with the thread it did make me think about where it was found and the story behind it...
20190202_152821-picsay.jpg
 
Not 70 years ago it wasn't, especially with a SS tour guide...

Serious Q: My Son is 7 but is well into documentary programs like world at war. Would visiting places like this be too much? Has anyone on here taken a nipper and if yes, how did they respond to it?
Not a child but we drove past the KZ at Dachau and my wife wanted to go in. We did not and I have no regret about the decision. Reading the "Scourge of the Swastika" at age 16 made it very clear to me.
 
I used to know an old boy who was a Sherman gunner all the way from Normandy to Germany
He said that by the time they reached Holland nobody was trying to take prisoners.
Brig joe Vandeleur told me of one of his troop commanders being first to come upon a satellite camp . They put a Sherman through a gate and on dismounting were confronted by silent inmates and the sound of shooting from behind the huts at the far side of the camp.
His men on investigating found young hitler youth types shooting at inmates who were hung up on barb whilst trying to make an escape ( the regular guards had disappeared when the Irish guards rolled up)
Joe said that non of the shooters survived there encounter with the furious tankers and left it at that.
 
Not a child but we drove past the KZ at Dachau and my wife wanted to go in. We did not and I have no regret about the decision. Reading the "Scourge of the Swastika" at age 16 made it very clear to me.
I took my kids there when the youngest was about 11. She found it more interesting than troubling
Not 70 years ago it wasn't, especially with a SS tour guide...

Serious Q: My Son is 7 but is well into documentary programs like world at war. Would visiting places like this be too much? Has anyone on here taken a nipper and if yes, how did they respond to it?
Not really. I can only speak for Dachau near Munich though. It’s fsirly innocuous, more interesting than horrifying. There’s a lot of it though so a 7 year old might get bored. The gas chamber and crematorium which are a bit disturbing are off to one side in a wood and are easily avoided as they’re not on the circular tour as such.

It takes about 45 minutes to get there; take either the S Bahn or a regional train from the Hauotbahnhof to Dachau then a frequent 10 minute bus to KZ Dachau.
 
Am I wrong in thinking that it appears mildly erotic?
Almost certainly, but don't worry about it.

As the allegory is a "Jew getting a hot shower" I think we can safely assume that the reality of the death camps was common knowledge to the German population. (I know Sachsenhausen wasn't an extermination camp).
 
Brig joe Vandeleur told me of one of his troop commanders being first to come upon a satellite camp . They put a Sherman through a gate and on dismounting were confronted by silent inmates and the sound of shooting from behind the huts at the far side of the camp.
His men on investigating found young hitler youth types shooting at inmates who were hung up on barb whilst trying to make an escape ( the regular guards had disappeared when the Irish guards rolled up)
Joe said that non of the shooters survived there encounter with the furious tankers and left it at that.
On the other side a Major in the HLI who used to work for me told me of motoring across the North German plain when some HJ enthusiast took pot-shots at them from a wood. The CO "Get that wood cleared" and so on down the line 'til a Corporal and his section were detailed off to do the job. They entered the wood, fired a few shots in the air "Wood cleared, sir"

Nobody wanted to die at that stage in the war.

By the way I have the Vandeluer Memorial Challenge Trophy sitting on my desk just now. It belongs to the West of Scotland Small-bore Rifle Association and is still being shot for every year. Slight variation in the spelling but it is an unusual name. I wonder if there is a connection.
 
Not 70 years ago it wasn't, especially with a SS tour guide...

Serious Q: My Son is 7 but is well into documentary programs like world at war. Would visiting places like this be too much? Has anyone on here taken a nipper and if yes, how did they respond to it?
I don’t think so. There’s not a lot there that’s particularly graphic to look at. It’s mainly when you start reading the captions that the full horror of the place becomes apparent.
 
Different place but from the same trip to Berlin, the remains of a Stuka in the Deutsche Technik Museum, there wasn't much info in English on it so in line with the thread it did make me think about where it was found and the story behind it... View attachment 383237
Good museum, that. The suspended Dakota(?) above the entrance is good.
They’ve got part of a shot down Lanc that they dragged out of a lake. The reg number is on it & I looked up it’s history. I won’t tell you what happened to it in the end...oh.
 
There were a lot of pictures like that in the kitchen basement, here's a few more I took
View attachment 383179 View attachment 383180 View attachment 383181 [/QUOTE]
Very interesting. In a similar vein, German POWs drew murals at their camps too. These were ;left behind by German POWs incarcerated at a camp on Wright_Patterson AFB in Ohio. The description from the blogger who posted the pictures on line says:
So I had a chance to visit an old building that is still in use at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio. Back during WWII it was used as a mess hall for German POW's. The prisoners (many of which were artists before the war) asked and received permission to paint murals of "fanciful creatures from German folklore" (aka Demons from Hell) on some of the walls in the chow hall. Most of the murals were eliminated during a refurbishment of the facility in the early 1950's, but the base commander ordered that one wall be preserved as a unique piece of history. I am told that in addition to the remaining Demon murals, the Devil himself still adorns a wall in a part of the building that is no longer accessed. Perhaps one of the artists went on to produce some of those pre-code Horror comics? Or maybe a pre-code comic artist had a chance to view these while on active duty? Who knows......:

Demon 2.jpg
Demon 4.jpg
Demon 5.jpg
Demon 7.jpg
 
Almost certainly, but don't worry about it.

As the allegory is a "Jew getting a hot shower" I think we can safely assume that the reality of the death camps was common knowledge to the German population. (I know Sachsenhausen wasn't an extermination camp).
Not until the Soviet prisoners from the early part of Barbarossa started flowing in there in large numbers, as per my photo of the trench round the back of the camp, they were executed by the thousands in there.
 
Good museum, that. The suspended Dakota(?) above the entrance is good.
They’ve got part of a shot down Lanc that they dragged out of a lake. The reg number is on it & I looked up it’s history. I won’t tell you what happened to it in the end...oh.
I did get a picture of that too, here's the wing section and landing gear

20190202_152736-picsay.jpg
 
Serious Q: My Son is 7 but is well into documentary programs like world at war. Would visiting places like this be too much? Has anyone on here taken a nipper and if yes, how did they respond to it?
Took my eight year old grandson to the IWM recently, there was a Holocaust exhibition on and as we approached it a nice gentleman suggested that I should give some thought to taking him in as he was below the recommended lower age of fourteen. “It’s a bit graphic” was his comment.

I declined to enter, the poor bugger’s got enough to contend with in his coming years without me giving him nightmares.
 
Not 70 years ago it wasn't, especially with a SS tour guide...

Serious Q: My Son is 7 but is well into documentary programs like world at war. Would visiting places like this be too much? Has anyone on here taken a nipper and if yes, how did they respond to it?

He might still be a bit young to understand what he is seeing.

I watched the World at War series when I was about 12, and recall that that was when I suddenly started putting two and two together about loads of incidents from my childhood to date - comments by adults, remembrance day programmes, noticing a lot of male amputees on a family camping holiday in Germany, the strange behaviour of certain neighbours (ex Jap PoWs), the incredibly waste-less and efficient way my grandmother ran her household (still on wartime austerity behaviours), etc and so on.

I suppose it varies from child to child, but IMHO there is definitely a transition point from being an oblivious child to becoming aware of the wider environment.
 
A younger child may take in the info as a curiosity which they will progress at a later date - always, of course, filtered according to their stage of personal emotional maturity for their age group (sensitivity, exposure to natural bereavements as a given factor). Truths should not be hidden form children - but should be presented appropriately to their understanding of the world and emotional resilience.

The delicate point being the age at which each child progresses from being aware that there are wider implications to everything in the world and understanding what those wider implications may be. I think that is where the real nightmares can occur on exposure to harsh realities. (As an example, listening to two sisters discussing their parents divorce, one being 12 at the time, one 10: their perceptions at the time and the subsequent life-luggage being very different.)

As an adult who knows the child, @Sundog judged that perfectly: often adults won't take dispassionate advice. And I agree with @4(T). We grew up with knowing why there were no rubbish bins on the streets, and left luggage was a worry. Kids shouldn't but do need to know these things, in addition to other (often online or peer pressure) risks that our generation have to keep up with. Arm them with a common sense and an understanding of context: when they are ready to process the information, show but explain challenging knowledge to them.
 

MoleBath

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Was in Poland a couple of years ago and declined to visit the camp , it somehow felt a bit voyeuristic.Perhaps the time has come to bulldoze the camps and leave simple monument and allow the dead to rest free of tourist tours?
 
A thought-provoking idea. We live in a digital age and so there is no way to forget these places and actions.

Perhaps they are left for the deniers - who would claim they were sets built to prove a false point anyway. And tourists who bucket list - and graffitis. And especially after the Pokemon hunting fiasco - a Gazeon at the ovens of one camp.
 
Many many failures occurred in the early days with a lot of lives lost. It was only after all these loses that engineers started to look at what could go wrong and what they needed to do going forward. Many industries relied on these guys. Not just with steam engines blowing, but pit beams breaking, pit shaft chains failing and the rest.
Hmmmm

737 MAXs grounded.

497124CC-576C-4E33-A2BD-AD5ED1A9A6D6.jpeg
 
A younger child may take in the info as a curiosity which they will progress at a later date - always, of course, filtered according to their stage of personal emotional maturity for their age group (sensitivity, exposure to natural bereavements as a given factor). Truths should not be hidden form children - but should be presented appropriately to their understanding of the world and emotional resilience.

The delicate point being the age at which each child progresses from being aware that there are wider implications to everything in the world and understanding what those wider implications may be. I think that is where the real nightmares can occur on exposure to harsh realities. (As an example, listening to two sisters discussing their parents divorce, one being 12 at the time, one 10: their perceptions at the time and the subsequent life-luggage being very different.)

As an adult who knows the child, @Sundog judged that perfectly: often adults won't take dispassionate advice. And I agree with @4(T). We grew up with knowing why there were no rubbish bins on the streets, and left luggage was a worry. Kids shouldn't but do need to know these things, in addition to other (often online or peer pressure) risks that our generation have to keep up with. Arm them with a common sense and an understanding of context: when they are ready to process the information, show but explain challenging knowledge to them.
We went to Berlin last year and I made a point of bringing my two daughters to the Bundestag / Reichstag, the Jewish memorial and to several other Nazi-related sites. We were staying near the Wall (remains of) so they had a quick educational lesson about the Wall, mid century history and freedom as a concept and as a reality. They really had their eyes opened.
 
We went to Berlin last year and I made a point of bringing my two daughters to the Bundestag / Reichstag, the Jewish memorial and to several other Nazi-related sites. We were staying near the Wall (remains of) so they had a quick educational lesson about the Wall, mid century history and freedom as a concept and as a reality. They really had their eyes opened.
locked them in the bathroom and went for lunch with the Mrs?
 

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