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Batavia is now Jakarta in Indonesia
 
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I have mentioned this before.

Many years ago, in the late 80's or early 90's, I read an article in one of those magazines that seemed to be so common at the time; British Army Review or some such. The article was about how allied prisoners coped in North Korean prison camps during that particular war.

Those who fared the worst were the US troops who simply couldn't handle the privation and deprivation. The Brits fared a little better, but those that did the best were the Indians and Turks. After a lot of analysis and reasoning, the conclusion was that they coped better simply because the conditions they experienced in the camps, weren't that much worse than they were used to in normal garrison life.
i read MH's Korea a couple of wks ago and he covered this at some length
 
I shall have a look but I think the mortality rate for Wehrmacht taken PoW by the USSR was significantly higher. More like 95%. Give me 24hrs chief.
You're thinking 6th Army after Stalingrad - not really surprising as they were weakened by disease, starvation and lack of medical care during the encirclement, many died of wounds, disease (particularly typhus), malnutrition and maltreatment in the months following capture at Stalingrad: only approximately 6,000 of them lived to be repatriated after the war

German prisoners of war in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

Worst case is about 3 million German PoWs taken, about 1 million died - 35.8%

German mistreatment of Soviet prisoners of war - Wikipedia

3.3 to 3.5 million Soviet deaths out of about 5.7 million taken - about 62%
 
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Speaking of Kut, wasn't the garrison starving and suffering from disease contributing to higher death rates?
Yes indeed but it's my understanding that the mortality rate I mentioned was of men subsequent to being taken prisoner. It may well be of course that the condition of the men during the siege may have contributed to the death rate once in captivity.
I came across this account of being a POW, although from an officer's standpoint.
Link
Prisoner of the Turks
 
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seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
Lt (later Admiral) Twiss, on release as a FePoW in 1945, has been quoted as saying that after Dartmouth it wasn't so bad.
 
View attachment 354439

Batavia is now Jakarta in Indonesia
This was a particularly nasty incident, with a robust response.

The victims, 20 Indian soldiers and 4 RAF aircrew, had been onboard a Douglas Dakota, KG520 of 31 Sqn., which was flying reinforcement troops to Semarang but crash landed in a paddy field near Batavia on Friday 23rd November 1945 following an engine failure in bad weather.

All onboard survived the crash landing, but were quickly captured by members of a local gang, the “Black Buffaloes”, under the command of an Indonesian extremist known as “General” Hadji Darib. Two of the Indians were murdered near the site of the crash, and the remaining survivors were taken to the Indonesian military barracks at the village of Bekassi, some 8 miles distant. There they were beaten, stripped, and held without food and water in three concrete cells.

At 2pm on Sunday 25th November, the prisoners were taken out and forced to dig a shallow grave by the side of the river. They were then tied up and dismembered, one by one, by a pair of professional local butchers, whilst the villagers cheered and assisted

The bodies were discovered by the British a week later, following a tip off from a local woman who had been held in the same village, pending execution, but who had been rescued by the British. The grave was excavated by Indonesians who were “invited to do so at bayonet point”, and the mutilated remains exhumed.

Less than a fortnight later, on Thursday 13th December, a large force of British and Indian troops, supported by tanks and RAF air cover, descended on the village of nearly 1,000 houses, and burnt it to the ground. The locals had almost entirely disappeared before the troops arrived, but several truck loads of fighters were spotted leaving at high speed, and destroyed by RAF fighter aircraft.
 
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Might bring a few memories to the old 'n bold..

img075.jpg


...or maybe nightmares!
 
As always its good to know the back story. POWs of the Japanese all suffered the same conditions but.

The US POWs died at a greater percentage , one reason was they were American , in units that had little or no history and no esprit di corps and the **** you jack it’s me before you attitude ( in the main)

The UK peers and units had historical traditions and many were in the same unit as their school friend or fathers old regiment. As well as “ looked out for each other”.
Not listed here are the many Dutch prisoners of war. As many of these were Dutch born in the Far East ,so used to the diet they did even better .
Sigh, More likely due to the fact the BULK of US pows of the Japanese were taken at Bataan where they had been on 1/2 rations since January 42 to begin with after a series of fighting retreats from line to line. Dysentery was rampant as was malaria and dengue long before they were forced to surrender to Homma.

The rations issue was due to several problems-
MacArthur and staff failed to provision adequately. They left hundreds of tons of rice behind in Manila
Civilians fleeing the Japs were allowed into the US/Filipino lines and had to be fed from the troops rations

Then add to that the Infamous Death march to Camp O'Donnell (a 60 mile forced march) in 110 °F heat with little water and usually polluted at that.

Then once in the Philippine camps a system to preclude escapes teamed men together. If one escaped the others were executed. After that a Hellship ride to Japan to work as slave in mines (IF the ship wasnt sunk by US Subs) and small wonder they died at high rates. Has nothing to do with regimental ties or traditions, even the 4th Marines (hardly a unit without Esprit) suffered while in camps
 
Looks like an airfield crash tender, with a foam monitor on the roof.
Correct.. these were RAF crash tenders deployed to inner city locations.. they were manned by military fire service personnel as I recall..
 
I have mentioned this before.

Many years ago, in the late 80's or early 90's, I read an article in one of those magazines that seemed to be so common at the time; British Army Review or some such. The article was about how allied prisoners coped in North Korean prison camps during that particular war.

Those who fared the worst were the US troops who simply couldn't handle the privation and deprivation. The Brits fared a little better, but those that did the best were the Indians and Turks. After a lot of analysis and reasoning, the conclusion was that they coped better simply because the conditions they experienced in the camps, weren't that much worse than they were used to in normal garrison life.
A very interesting read on Korean War POW's
''Broken Soldiers''
Raymond B. Lech

  • ISBN-10: 0252025415
  • ISBN-13: 978-0252025419
The ones taken by the NKPA suffered Bataan death march like death rates and then for the first winter the CCF had a deliberate policy to starve the UN POW's and break down discipline. Officers and NCO's were to be ignored.

A Highlight if you will was Corporal Tibor Rubin of Item Co. 8th Cavalry 1CAVDIV who did all he could to keep fellow POW's alive. His teens were spent as an inmate at Mauthausen KL. He refused offers to be repatriated to Hungary by the CCF
Narrative for Medal of Honor Recipient Corporal Tibor Rubin
 
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http://worldwar2database.com/sites/default/files/wwii1451.jpg

Prisoners on the march from Bataan to Camp O'Donnell, April 1942.(National Archives)

Left to Right: Pfc Samuel Stenzler, Pfc Frank Spear, Capt. James M Gallagher.

All three men perished during the war.

CAPT. Gallagher died shortly after the photo was taken on or about 9 April.

PFC. Stenzler died at Camp O'Donnell on 26 May 1942

PFC.Spear was executed at a camp in Japan in July 1945.


Samuel Stenzler was born in Tluste, Poland (then part of Austria) and immigrated to the United States as a child. He married and resided in San Antonio, Texas, applying for American citizenship in 1909. Stenzler registered for the draft in World War I, listing his occupation as "Soldier (Discharged)." After the death of his wife, he rejoined the United States Army on February 27, 1940, and was assigned to Company C, 31st Infantry Regiment of the Philippine Division, the premier American fighting unit in the Philippines.

The 31st Regiment fought in the Battles of Layac (January 6, 1942) and Abucay Hacienda (January 17-24, 1942). C Company renamed the Abucay battlefield "Dead Men's Hill" because of their losses and the high number of Japanese casualties. The 31st Infantry Regiment fought a delaying action through April 1942 but was short of food, ammunition, and reinforcements throughout the campaign; the unit never had more than 60% of its authorized strength available.

Company C surrendered on April 9, 1942 with the rest of the 31st Regiment when United States Army Major General Edward P. King capitulated the Bataan peninsula. Stenzler died at Camp O'Donnell on May 26, 1942, probably because of starvation, constant physical and mental abuse, and overwork, aged 47 years. His remains were repatriated and reburied at Long Island National Cemetery on October 18, 1949.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=stenzler&GSiman=1&GScid=65121&GRid=64125136&



Frank Spear was born in Ledalis, Missouri. A Mormon, Spear enlisted on August 13, 1941 in Salt Lake City, Utah, and arrived in Manila aboard one of the last transports before the war began and was assigned to the Far East Air Force's 4th Chemical Company (Aviation).

When the 31st Infantry was depleted in combat, Spear and the rest of 4th Chemical were assigned to the regiment because they had infantry training. Spears served with I Company after the Battle of Abucay Hacienda. After surviving Camp O'Donnell, Spear was sent on the "hell ship" Taga Maru on September 20, 1943 to Niigata Camp 5-B, arriving in Osaka, Japan on October 5.

Camp Commandant Lt. Tetsutaro Kato personally executed Spear on July 9, 1945, after Spear became insane with hunger and attempted to escape several times. Spear was bayoneted several times in front of the whole camp.



James M. Gallagher was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and attended Georgetown University in the mid-thirties. He attended Reserve Officers Training while in college. After college he joined the United States Army. When he arrived in the Philippines, he was assigned as a training officer to the 33rd Infantry Regiment of the 31st Infantry Division of the Philippine Army.

Gallagher was killed the day this photo was taken or soon after.Gallagher was left off the official Prisoner of War rolls because he died on the Bataan Death March; his body was never recovered.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if some were infected but I imagine they would've received treatment for it. Some uk/us personnel must've been at risk/infected as well I'd suspect.

It's not that I'm particularly worked up about these guys, they may have been despicable ****s or just caught up in the tide of war, but I imagine a unit* that's fought its way from Normandy to the death camps and discovered a load of ss guards and a few thousand corpses would have little qualms about shooting them out of hand.

*individuals at least
They all died of Typhus, which was rampant through the camp. Many of the German nurses who genuinely volunteered to nurse the sick also died.
 

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