Photos that make you think.

View attachment 331494

The wreckage of Rudolf Hess' Messerschmitt Bf 110D "VJ+OQ", Werk Nr 3869, after crashing at Bonnyton Moor, Scotland, on May 10th, 1941.

I don't suppose we will ever find out the real reason for Hess' "defection", but I believe he thought he could sue for peace with some members of the British aristocracy. It would probably be very embarrassing for some if we ever found out who.
well we broadly know who although it was said to be a ruse, Halifaxes coven wouldn't have objected. Bit like Brexit really.
 
View attachment 331494

The wreckage of Rudolf Hess' Messerschmitt Bf 110D "VJ+OQ", Werk Nr 3869, after crashing at Bonnyton Moor, Scotland, on May 10th, 1941.

I don't suppose we will ever find out the real reason for Hess' "defection", but I believe he thought he could sue for peace with some members of the British aristocracy. It would probably be very embarrassing for some if we ever found out who.
I'd hazard a guess that the list would include Halifax, the former Edward the VIII, and a lot of the other highest ranking members of the aristocracy. If you got a picture of all the lords, ladies, sirs and so on, and chucked some darts at it, you'd be hard-pressed not to hit a sympathizer with at least every other shot.
 
I'd hazard a guess that the list would include Halifax, the former Edward the VIII, and a lot of the other highest ranking members of the aristocracy. If you got a picture of all the lords, ladies, sirs and so on, and chucked some darts at it, you'd be hard-pressed not to hit a sympathizer with at least every other shot.
Pretty much hinted at in the book 'Fascist Scotland'.
Worth a perusal.
 
Edward the VIII,
Ah and that little twist. Shocking isn't it, bearing in mind they are Saxe coburg Gotha/ Hannover alias Windsor. That First world war issue starting with Battenburg really was the Pits from the British point of view. The English would have been far more pragmatic, but then that would be unthinkable:mrgreen:. Perhaps the only reason you got Georgie Boy was that Elizabeth Bowes Lyon had a pathloical hatred of Germans. Yep Her brother had died in the war, but then so had so many others. These little things amuse me.
 
Aside from the who, I always thought when was interesting. Just before Barbarossa and the prospect of beating and invading Britain a distant thought.
To claim Hitler knew nothing of Hess' trip is pure fantasy IMHO.
 
I didn't think Mussolini was much of an influence in Scotland.
Nazism was influenced by Fascism which predated it.
Why does he associate UKIP with BNP as if they are somehow the same?
Did you miss the sizeable Italian community in Scotland, which existed then and still does to this day? A sizeable Italian community that still had links to the old country, across both religious and secular lines? There's a lot of reasons why the Italians faced persecution during World War 2.
 
Did you miss the sizeable Italian community in Scotland, which existed then and still does to this day? A sizeable Italian community that still had links to the old country, across both religious and secular lines? There's a lot of reasons why the Italians faced persecution during World War 2.
Fair point but wasn't aware of them causing issues other than the ice cream wars.
 
Aside from the who, I always thought when was interesting. Just before Barbarossa and the prospect of beating and invading Britain a distant thought.
To claim Hitler knew nothing of Hess' trip is pure fantasy IMHO.

Dunno. Every single biography from his surviving inner circle recounts the same reaction from Hitler - shock and incredulity. In fact there is no hint of any person in the Nazi establishment being privy to some secret plan - they all seem to think Hess had gone completely mad.

IMHO the hoary old allegations of Nazi sympathisers in UK - including the ex-King - is also mostly nonsense. The Nazis had worldwide "sympathisers" and admirers in the 1930s, but that all fell away when things started kicking off from 1937-ish onwards. There may have been those in the British establishment in favour of suing for peace in 1940 out of fear, but none by that stage displayed any evidence of supporting a Nazi-style regime.
 
Aside from the who, I always thought when was interesting. Just before Barbarossa and the prospect of beating and invading Britain a distant thought.
To claim Hitler knew nothing of Hess' trip is pure fantasy IMHO.
I’m not so sure.

Bowd wrote this:

“Hess did not give up on his mission, which he prepared in secret with the complicity of his adjutant, Karlheinz Pintsch. The flight to Scotland apparently caused consternation in the Nazi leadership. On hearing the news at Berchtesgaden, Hitler burst into tears. In a Nazi Party statement, Hess was described as having undergone severe physical suffering for some years, which had led him increasingly to seek relief in the various methods practised by mesmerists and astrologers. He was an ‘idealist’ who had fallen prey to ‘tragic hallucinations’. A letter left behind ‘showed traces of mental disturbances’.8 Josef Goebbels commented privately that ‘there are situations which even the best propagandist in the world cannot cope with’. He noted in his diary: ‘What a spectacle for the world: a mentally deranged second man after the Führer.”

Goebbels seems to have originated the phrase “you can’t polish a turd”.
 
Dunno. Every single biography from his surviving inner circle recounts the same reaction from Hitler - shock and incredulity. In fact there is no hint of any person in the Nazi establishment being privy to some secret plan - they all seem to think Hess had gone completely mad.
Hess was one of Hitlers oldest and closest friends. He was arrested with Hitler after the Munich beerhall fiasco and was sent to the same prison (Landsberg) Hess was one of the editors of Mein Kampf. They were released within 10 days of each other. Hess was member no. 16 of the NSDAP and was by all accounts devoted to Hitler and the cause.
I cannot believe that Hitler did not know of Hess' plans. I can believe that he would have plausible deniability, should anything go wrong, which means they would not have discussed the plans openly. Claiming Hess had gone mad after the event and blubbing at the failure were all part of the plan IMHO.
As I said, I doubt we will ever know the full truth, but it certainly fits the criteria of photos that make you think.
 
View attachment 331494

The wreckage of Rudolf Hess' Messerschmitt Bf 110D "VJ+OQ", Werk Nr 3869, after crashing at Bonnyton Moor, Scotland, on May 10th, 1941.

I don't suppose we will ever find out the real reason for Hess' "defection", but I believe he thought he could sue for peace with some members of the British aristocracy. It would probably be very embarrassing for some if we ever found out who.
Some years ago I listened to a radio interview with an historian who argued that those among the British aristocracy who supported the fascists were known to British intelligence and some were used to disseminate false intelligence back to Germany in much the same way that some German agents were turned. Churchill, I believe, prevented any judicial moves against these peers but I can't remember whether any reasons were put forward. I suspect that Churchill, as a member of that class felt that it would undermine any respect for the aristocracy if certain members were to be placed in the dock for treason but I am only surmising.
 
....I don't suppose we will ever find out the real reason for Hess' "defection", but I believe he thought he could sue for peace with some members of the British aristocracy. It would probably be very embarrassing for some if we ever found out who.
ISTR the name of his British contact is well known, but I 've forgotten it. There must be a book or two about it?
 
Some years ago I listened to a radio interview with an historian who argued that those among the British aristocracy who supported the fascists were known to British intelligence and some were used to disseminate false intelligence back to Germany in much the same way that some German agents were turned. Churchill, I believe, prevented any judicial moves against these peers but I can't remember whether any reasons were put forward. I suspect that Churchill, as a member of that class felt that it would undermine any respect for the aristocracy if certain members were to be placed in the dock for treason but I am only surmising.
MI5 kept very close tabs on suspect aristocrats, industrialists etc.

From the Fascist Scotland book:

“On 23 September, Haushofer wrote to ‘my dear Douglo’, asking whether he ‘could find time to have a talk with [him] somewhere on the outskirts of Europe, perhaps in Portugal’.7 This letter was intercepted by MI5 and not seen by its addressee until March the following year, and no reply was sent.”
Douglo was the Duke of Hamilton who was a Wing Commander in the RAF, was the bloke Hess flew to meet and who was the first to interrogate him.

As an aside, when Churchill was told about this flight and surrender he wasn’t too fussed at first as he was off to the cinema to watch the Marx Brothers.
 
Fair point but wasn't aware of them causing issues other than the ice cream wars.
he he, half way way house for the Mafia
Some years ago I listened to a radio interview with an historian who argued that those among the British aristocracy who supported the fascists were known to British intelligence and some were used to disseminate false intelligence back to Germany in much the same way that some German agents were turned. Churchill, I believe, prevented any judicial moves against these peers but I can't remember whether any reasons were put forward. I suspect that Churchill, as a member of that class felt that it would undermine any respect for the aristocracy if certain members were to be placed in the dock for treason but I am only surmising.
ISTR that History channel covered it in "Britains Nazis" I stand to be corrected but there was some connection with American Intelligence in London at a time when Churchill needed America on board. To have arrested everyone would have undermined Roosevelt
 
I'm not surprised given the lack of hi viz, hard hats and fall arrest gear.
Homemade hard hats were used by what was termed high scalers.
Apparently they were the first of what is known now as hard hats.

The men who removed this rock were called "high scalers". While suspended from the top of the canyon with ropes, the high-scalers climbed down the canyon walls and removed the loose rock with jackhammers and dynamite. Falling objects were the most common cause of death on the dam site; the high scalers' work thus helped ensure worker safety.[54] One high scaler was able to save life in a more direct manner: when a government inspector lost his grip on a safety line and began tumbling down a slope towards almost certain death, a high scaler was able to intercept him and pull him into the air. The construction site had, even then, become a magnet for tourists; the high scalers were prime attractions and showed off for the watchers. The high scalers received considerable media attention, with one worker dubbed the "Human Pendulum" for swinging co-workers (and, at other times, cases of dynamite) across the canyon.[55] To protect themselves against falling objects, some high scalers took cloth hats and dipped them in tar, allowing them to harden. When workers wearing such headgear were struck hard enough to inflict broken jaws, they sustained no skull damage, Six Companies ordered thousands of what initially were called "hard boiled hats" (later "hard hats") and strongly encouraged their use
 
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