Phil Shiner - Karma is a wonderful thing

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Don't forget their dealers, rent- boys and white goods repair- men.......

And to get good seats/tables in posh restaurants, plus of course the cash/expenses, increased fees for speeches given, possible seats on boards of directors, all of which one might get for being a Lord!
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
And to get good seats/tables in posh restaurants, plus of course the cash/expenses, increased fees for speeches given, possible seats on boards of directors, all of which one might get for being a Lord!
Why would they need increased fees when the tax payer provides them with a level of luxury that most of could only dream of for free.
 
I believe what she actually said was:

I have actually quite a lot more experience than people might think I do.
I have a member of my family who is in the armed forces. I have a brother-in-law who is a general.
I have six members of my family in the NHS. Four of them are doctors, one a consultant. PM me for an opinion if you've got AIDS, brain cancer, liver failure or any other potentially fatal illness. For help in deploying your battalion for the next Korean war, , call Lt Col Nugee.

I was actually made an honorary lieutenant colonel when I was doing court martials when I was a barrister and so I have a certain amount of experience of the military there.
I once stayed in the Oriental Hotel in Bangkok. This is where the Queen stays when she visits Thailand. Am I now an experienced member of the Royal Family? Best start calling me Your Majesty, just in case.

I have a regiment in my constituency.
I bet there's a mental hospital somewhere in her constituency too.

My father was a peacekeeper.
My father was an alcoholic.

He was Irish and I have to say he thought more highly of the British troops than he did of any other countries.
I'm sure numerous heads of state will be keen to talk to her about that when she becomes Foreign Secretary.

Thank feck Labour haven't got a hope in hell. If that woman got into the UK government, it wouldn't just be the North Koreans trying to nuke us.
 
So, 100% true, apart from the fact that she was never made an honorary lieutenant colonel, then.
I think MoD had explained that, as a barrister attending CMs, she would have been given the equivalent rank of Lt Col for accommodation purposes, in the same way as some CS and, for example, WRVS women who use messes are. Nothing honorary about it, and it's just a convenience to ensure they get charged the correct rate.
As far as I'm aware (again) it's not something she made a big point of or pretended meant anything - she's pretty specific about the significance in what she said, unless she's said anything in any other context which I have never seen any reference to (?).

My point is that trying to pillory her for things that she either isn't responsible for, such as her husband being made a knight so her technically becoming 'Lady Nugee' - a title she never uses - or for insignificant technical mistakes such as saying she was temporarily given given 'honorary' lt col rank when she was actually 'given the equivalent rank for accommodation purposes' - when she was very clear about the limitations and significance (or lack of significance) of that 'rank' - don't really add much weight to any criticism, but rather detract from it.

In other words, if the worst that can be said about her is that a) her husband's been knighted because he became a High Court judge but she refuses to use her title and b) she said / thought she was briefly made an 'honorary' lt col for a Court Martial while she was actually only given the 'equivalent' rank for Mess purposes, but she's not pretended it meant anything significant, then that probably puts her streets ahead of most other politicians who are 'guilty' of far more.

Is that really the worst she's done?
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
As far as I'm aware (again) it's not something she made a big point of or pretended meant anything - she's pretty specific about the significance in what she said, unless she's said anything in any other context which I have never seen any reference to (?).

My point is that trying to pillory her for things that she either isn't responsible for, such as her husband being made a knight so her technically becoming 'Lady Nugee' - a title she never uses - or for insignificant technical mistakes such as saying she was temporarily given given 'honorary' lt col rank when she was actually 'given the equivalent rank for accommodation purposes' - when she was very clear about the limitations and significance (or lack of significance) of that 'rank' - don't really add much weight to any criticism, but rather detract from it.

In other words, if the worst that can be said about her is that a) her husband's been knighted because he became a High Court judge but she refuses to use her title and b) she said / thought she was briefly made an 'honorary' lt col for a Court Martial while she was actually only given the 'equivalent' rank for Mess purposes, but she's not pretended it meant anything significant, then that probably puts her streets ahead of most other politicians who are 'guilty' of far more.

Is that really the worst she's done?
If you want the measure of this despicable creature you should cast your mind back to recent election.
Rochester 'white van man' from Thornberry tweet says he's 'not got a
 
As far as I'm aware (again) it's not something she made a big point of or pretended meant anything - she's pretty specific about the significance in what she said, unless she's said anything in any other context which I have never seen any reference to (?).

My point is that trying to pillory her for things that she either isn't responsible for, such as her husband being made a knight so her technically becoming 'Lady Nugee' - a title she never uses - or for insignificant technical mistakes such as saying she was temporarily given given 'honorary' lt col rank when she was actually 'given the equivalent rank for accommodation purposes' - when she was very clear about the limitations and significance (or lack of significance) of that 'rank' - don't really add much weight to any criticism, but rather detract from it.

In other words, if the worst that can be said about her is that a) her husband's been knighted because he became a High Court judge but she refuses to use her title and b) she said / thought she was briefly made an 'honorary' lt col for a Court Martial while she was actually only given the 'equivalent' rank for Mess purposes, but she's not pretended it meant anything significant, then that probably puts her streets ahead of most other politicians who are 'guilty' of far more.
If you consider that untruthfully saying that you'd been made an honorary colonel, in the context of claiming experience of the military, whilst also holding the position of Shadow Defence Secretary, and being a member of a profession where truth, honesty and integrity are paramount, is insignificant then we may have to agree to disagree.

Is that really the worst she's done?
Not at all; she claims to be a socialist and is a senior member of the PLP, but sent her children to selective schools outside her local state school's area; she criticised the government over the lack of social housing, whilst buying a former social home in order to become a private landlord (she owns several properties). She is an utter hypocrite, typical of the Islington champagne socialists.

And that's apart from her apparently being unable to differentiate her rectum from her humerus when it comes to her party's policy.
 
Pretty good for John G really only one glaring error after all. Did she ever apologise/recant for that statement?
See above.

If you think that saying you were briefly an 'honorary' lt col for obviously administrative reasons during a Court Martial when you were actually only a lt col 'equivalent' for obviously administrative reasons during a Court Martial is such a "glaring error" that it requires any further explanation then you would seem to be scraping the barrel in desparation.

(and this is CA, so I'd suggest that personal jibes simply reinforce that point)
 
See above.

If you think that saying you were briefly an 'honorary' lt col for obviously administrative reasons during a Court Martial when you were actually only a lt col 'equivalent' for obviously administrative reasons during a Court Martial is such a "glaring error" that it requires any further explanation then you would seem to be scraping the barrel in desparation.
Perhaps - but not when you have a brother in law who is a general (who would doubtless have been able to resolve any doubt), advisors and researchers who would have checked, and when you are a barrister - in the law precision in the use and meaning of words is important.

Further, as you say, the equivalent rank was for 'obviously administrative' reasons. If it was so obvious, why didn't Lady Nugee realise?
 
Just a reminder of what she actually said originally: “I was actually made an honorary lieutenant colonel when I was doing court martials when I was a barrister and so I have a certain amount of experience of the military there."

If you consider that untruthfully saying that you'd been made an honorary colonel, in the context of claiming experience of the military, whilst also holding the position of Shadow Defence Secretary, and being a member of a profession where truth, honesty and integrity are paramount, is insignificant then we may have to agree to disagree.
I'd agree IF that's what she did, but unless there is some other 'context' that clearly wasn't what she did, as she made the circumstances very clear.

Not at all; she claims to be a socialist and is a senior member of the PLP, but sent her children to selective schools outside her local state school's area; she criticised the government over the lack of social housing, whilst buying a former social home in order to become a private landlord (she owns several properties). She is an utter hypocrite, typical of the Islington champagne socialists.

And that's apart from her apparently being unable to differentiate her rectum from her humerus when it comes to her party's policy.
Exactly. There are far more significant and more important points - or at least there should be.

... and I'm afraid you've done it again.

The school she sent her children to is selective, which is complete hypocrisy, but it's only outside their local area geographically because it moved and it still reserves 10% of its places for those from her area.

... and running a profitable business, including as a private landlord, doesn't stop anyone being a socialist.

... and just what is the significance of one of those properties being former social housing? It wasn't when she bought it.

As I said, I'm not defending her but those attacking her are doing a pretty poor job of it if those are the worst of her transgressions.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
As far as I'm aware (again) it's not something she made a big point of or pretended meant anything - she's pretty specific about the significance in what she said, unless she's said anything in any other context which I have never seen any reference to (?).
Such as showing her suitability as a shadow spokesman on defence due to this, and having a sldr in the family.
One of the things I would like to see in a politician aspiring to higher position would be checking facts, especially if that were a part of their real day job.
Honesty and clarity would also be nice, but I'd be chasing ghosts for that.

My point is that trying to pillory her for things that she either isn't responsible for, such as her husband being made a knight so her technically becoming 'Lady Nugee' - a title she never uses -
True, she never uses it in public.
I can give no evidence other than hearsay from a couple of people I trust, so it's inadmissible in both a legal court and the higher one of Arrse.

or for insignificant technical mistakes such as saying she was temporarily given given 'honorary' lt col rank when she was actually 'given the equivalent rank for accommodation purposes'
Would you include in "insignificant technical mistakes" by qualified legal brains who are trained to be precise with minutiae, such trivial things as being unable to explain how one had missed many opportunities to disclose a significant document which would have fatally undermined a large number of their own - and another lawyer's - cases, or possibly referring to bribes in written communications but when questioned by peers, claiming the word wasn't to be taken literally ?

or for insignificant technical mistakes such as saying she was temporarily given given 'honorary' lt col rank when she was actually 'given the equivalent rank for accommodation purposes' - when she was very clear about the limitations and significance (or lack of significance) of that 'rank' - don't really add much weight to any criticism, but rather detract from it.
Until questioned there was no mention about it being temporary, nor have I seen her expand on any limitations or lack of significance.
An ex-Int oke, who for some obscure reason likes truth and clarity, informed me that here Wiki page was - at least at one stage - thoroughly policed and edited, and changes could only be made when accompanied by a stone tablet signed by a deity.*


Is that really the worst she's done?
Not by a long chalk I'd hazard to guess.



* To John G - this might be artistic licence, don't get all bent up about it.
 
Further, as you say, the equivalent rank was for 'obviously administrative' reasons. If it was so obvious, why didn't Lady Nugee realise?
I'd suggest that she not only did 'realise' it but she makes that very clear - she's all too obviously not just not pretending that it had any significance outside of it's context, but sbe's even spelt out the particular details and limits of that 'context' in case there is any doubt.

If this is the worst she's done maybe she's considerably better than I thought she was, but I doubt that's what it indicates.

I'd be interested to know why you (and others) refer to her as 'Lady Nugee' when it's not a title she has ever used nor is it a title she can decline - nor is it really one by which she is well known.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I'd suggest that she not only did 'realise' it but she makes that very clear - she's all too obviously not just not pretending that it had any significance outside of it's context, but sbe's even spelt out the particular details and limits of that 'context' in case there is any doubt.

If this is the worst she's done maybe she's considerably better than I thought she was, but I doubt that's what it indicates.

I'd be interested to know why you (and others) refer to her as 'Lady Nugee' when it's not a title she has ever used nor is it a title she can decline - nor is it really one by which she is well known.
In order to highlight her crushing snobbery and hypocrisy.
Rochester 'white van man' from Thornberry tweet says he's 'not got a
 
She said "bollox" in Parliament and, worse, on the Andrew Marr show. She also resembles the short haired fat slag out of Viz. I can see her at this summer's state dinner for Trump downing half a case of Newcastle Brown before smashing one of the empties and lunging towards the President shouting "Why didn't you marry me? Aren't my t1ts big enough?". Followed by "Bollox" as a platoon of midget Secret Service marksmen disguised as corgis hose the place down with 9mm.
 
Would you include in "insignificant technical mistakes" by qualified legal brains who are trained to be precise with minutiae, such trivial things as being unable to explain how one had missed many opportunities to disclose a significant document which would have fatally undermined a large number of their own - and another lawyer's - cases, or possibly referring to bribes in written communications but when questioned by peers, claiming the word wasn't to be taken literally ?
VERY fair point.

No, not under any circumstances and I don't see any comparability at all - what I find a bit surprising, though, even for ARRSE, is that judging by their posts here that seems to be a parallel some here can see.

One of the things I would like to see in a politician aspiring to higher position would be checking facts, especially if that were a part of their real day job.
Honesty and clarity would also be nice, but I'd be chasing ghosts for that.
Agreed 100% - but all the above attacks on her have shown, if that's the worst she's guilty of, is that she's no worse than any other politician and better than most. Probably not what was intended.

Until questioned there was no mention about it being temporary, nor have I seen her expand on any limitations or lack of significance.
Nor any mention about it being permanent! To me she was so clear in what she originally said that it doesn't need any further explanation - the limits and context couldn't be much clearer.

I can't stand the woman, but if this is the worst she's done maybe I should re-consider :(
 
She said "bollox" in Parliament and, worse, on the Andrew Marr show. She also resembles the short haired fat slag out of Viz. I can see her at this summer's state dinner for Trump downing half a case of Newcastle Brown before smashing one of the empties and lunging towards the President shouting "Why didn't you marry me? Aren't my t1ts big enough?". Followed by "Bollox" as a platoon of midget Secret Service marksmen disguised as corgis hose the place down with 9mm.
I'd pay good money to see that
 
Oh good. Another perfectly worthy thread hijacked by John_G defending the indefensible based on his extensive knowledge gleaned on the internet from the other side of the world.

The Shadow Foreign Secretary warrants a whole thread of her own to illustrate her complete incompetence and twattishness, however is there any update on the Shiner case?
 
Neither have I, but some have obviously taken a closer interest (I'd never heard of it before here, TBH, so had to look it up):
..and became an instant expert on the subject. My earlier point proved.
 
Oh good. Another perfectly worthy thread hijacked by John_G defending the indefensible based on his extensive knowledge gleaned on the internet from the other side of the world.

The Shadow Foreign Secretary warrants a whole thread of her own to illustrate her complete incompetence and twattishness, however is there any update on the Shiner case?
Indeed. Locked for now, to be re-opened when there's something to report on the unlovely Shiner.
 
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