Discussion in 'Education and Resettlement Courses' started by Masters, Mar 10, 2013.

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  1. I'm going back to when I was at Uni as a student and staff member 15 years ago.

    The PGCE, Post Graduate Certificate in Education, is generally a one year full-time course - I cannot remember where but I recall a couple of places offering it over 2 years part-time.

    The clue is in the name 'Post Graduate'. It is ordinarily a requirement that participants hold a first/undergraduate degree. This serves two purposes: It show the ability to learn; it gives the future teacher a specialisation which they can then actually teach, ie. maths, chemistry, geography.

    There was a scheme when I was at uni to get Craft Design and Technology (CDT) teachers trained and out of the door PDQ. The CDT route was more or less open to all who could show some intelligence and a willingness to learn and a genuine interest in teaching. One of the blokes who use to sit at the 'Sgts Mess' table in the Student Union Cafe was an ex-SSGT who was doing the one year PGCDT course as a direct entrant.

    Some uni's offer an Accreditation of Prior Learning (APL) or similar scheme, my uni used to let you off with up to 20% of the studies if you could prove top whack with your APL............good luck with that though, its less hassle and easier just to do the modules and score high marks because you know the subject.

    A pointer for you: A mucker - ex Navy Officer - already had a degree, decided to get into teaching upon leaving, did a Masters as a refresher and followed up with a PGCE. He had researched the subject to death and came to the conclusion that for financial benefits, better working environment, potential career progression it was better off to go to the Public (private, fee paying) schools as a teacher.

    Postgraduate Craft Design and Technology (CDT) Teaching degree courses |
  2. The PGCE/Cert Ed course can be done over 2 years part time study.

    Southampton Uni run a military cohort each year all military on the course.

    PM me more details it contacts.

    I completed it last year. I've not finished my degree so did the Cert Ed (same course less words on 2 assignments)
  3. Some institutions call it a "Professional Graduate" Certificate of Education - but this if for Further Education only as most of the time you only need a Level 3 (i.e. A level or HNC etc) qualification to teach your subject rather than a degree.

    If you want to be a school teacher - I doubt there's any chance of accreditation.

    For Further Education, the ASLS TTT course (or whatever it's called now - aparently the new DIN is out) I believe with a little bit of extra work qualifies you for PTLLS - which gives you associate teacher status. For full status you need PGCE/DTLLS which again I doubt you will get accredited for.

    Qualifications for teaching and supporting learning in the FE sector in England | Excellence Gateway (England only - See devolved govt website for other nations)

    Cert Ed is another name for similar level of qualification, but PGCertEd (PCET) is the old old name for PGCE.

    I work in a University department that delivers PGCE's with Qualified Teacher Status if you want to know more on that side.

  4. Got mine too and no difference on the course whatsoever. Same content. Done over two years at night. Has a (FE) after the title on my cert for Further Education ~ So full title on certificate is PGCE/Cert Ed (FE) so only applicable for those teaching tertiary/adult education or those whose professional bodies have deemed it necessary [we had four driving instructors on my course]
  5. Further Education establishments are more interested in the old 'D' awards, assessor, internal verifier, external verifier awards
  6. Seconded. Southampton University has an excellent reputation in this area.
  7. Just as an extra bit of info. Some uni's can only offer QTLS but since April last year is given the same status as QTS so you can teach secondary.

    In England anyway. In Scotland you must have a degree in your chosen subject to teach it in secondary.
  8. I believe this can also be done at Birmingham City University too, the guys at our training school have to do it
  9. More standards shifting to get bums on seats.
  10. Standards are still the same but it is moving away from the snobbery that exists within education that people think of themselves as elitist and you are only capable of teaching if you can pass a theory exam.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. It was the people with degrees that struggled on my course IIRC....
  12. And in my gaff's "Post Graduate" Certificate of Education the teacher training bit is at Level 6 - not postgraduate at all! They just add in Level 7 stuff out of snobbery and all it does is make the trainees busier. I know that University of Reading at least do the same, can't think of any others.

    Plus you only need an academic degree if your teaching an academic subject.
  13. I know what you mean and I did very well at uni because I could apply many lessons learned from 11 years in the military. And, I have seen some service personnel transition magnificently to teaching at all levels.

    However, standards have changed, dropped in the main, as unis [mainly the old Polys] struggle to maintain income levels, gain research grants and attract consultancy work.

    I kicked off in a Poly doing a HND, the Pol became a 'new' uni and after the HND I was offered a degree conversion course. I moved down the road to the real Leeds uni to do a masters and met some professors for the first tme instead of Poly lecturers - clever blokes, authors, speakers and even corporate and Govt advisors.

    I used to pop up to the old Poly to visi m mate in the IT Dept and could not fail to notice that some of the senior lecturers had been appointed [that should read re-titled] as professors. Nice blokes in the main but not prime academic material, no books, no papers no major consultancy. In order to attract fnding from various Govt Depts and to mpress industry o need lets create some.

    As I moved into postgrad research and was expected to teach I noiced the difference in the standard and ability of the incoming students over a three year period at the outset ofmthe period best referred to as the commercialisation of unis in the UK. I attended an internal course on marking assignments and giving students feedback - to a mature student with a modicum of real life experience it soon became apparent that the course had been designed for the older more rigourous approach to study. When I, and others, applied the criteria as advised we were asked to re-mark work in a more lenient manner - so that students actually passed the assingments with the crap work they were handing.

    I attended a school academic review meeting to evaluate BSc students for progress to the next academic year. At the outset of the meeting the head of programme told us that even if they failed the year a student may continue and instead of graduating as a BSc (Hons) policy now dictated that they b allowed to continue and graduate with a BSc...........oh yes, employers know the difference, not.

    Back in the day you had to work your balls off to get a 1st Class degree. Nowadays they allocate 1st's to the top 10% of most courses, not all, but many. The reason is that Govt research funding is in part allocated in accordance with the academic ability of the institution.........and having lots of 1st's is an easy way to demonstrate this.

    When I started out as a student in Leeds before the uni's were set adrift nd grants were cut back there was around 16,000 students in Leeds and it had hovered around tht level for years. Suddenly though as kids got cleverer and passed more A Levels there were over 30,000 students in Leeds, this change more or less happened from one year to the next. Why? Because in comparison to other developed Euro countries the UK had less numbers of qualified people. They needed more qualified people, A Lvel standards were dropped to get more through those and the result is more bums on seats in lots of new universities.

    After I finished uni I dcided to carry on with property development full time and as such I went to local college to do plumbing and heating. The kids there were not even bright enough to pass the dropped standards of GCSE or A levels and even the Chief Instructor quietly used to state that the kids he was getting in 'Post Academic Period of Change' would not even have been considered for a place to learn the art of plumbing 3 or 4 years previous.

    So, whilst I agree with you that former service personnel make good teaching staff I must however disagree on the quality issue. Standards have gone down across the board in order to get bums on seats. It may not have been apparent to you as it happened about 15 years ago. However, it can also depend on the course participants in how far they are willing to stretch the ability of their teaching staff. If you demand that they work and deliver a quality course they generally will.