PFTs - Does Blandford bother at Phase 2?

Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by Hobgoblin, Oct 17, 2006.

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  1. I only ask this question because I have just had a third soldier arrive in my Sqn from Phase 2 trg and fail his PFT within the first week. This latest one being a real howler who could not pass either the press ups or sit ups and managed to run a staggering (he must have been to go this slowly) 12:59 run :!:

    Given the number of new soldiers I have have join the Sqn in the past 12 months this is about a 20% failure rate.

    Does anyone esle think that this is acceptable?
  2. Of course it is not acceptable, I am hoping that when the PFT comes in to full swing then hoping they will be given an altomatom! Get your fitness up or get chucked out!!

    Although maybe they are not doing this because the need for there particular trade or maybe they cant justify get rid off trained(apparently) soldiers due to the money that has already been spent on them!

    So far I have not seen the effects of what happens to guys/gals who fail ther PFT..........has anyone seen it yet?
  3. I for one put them straight on a 3 month warning with a (genuine) threat to apply for their discharge if they fail to achieve the desired PFT result in time. Not only that I direct that they will attend Remedial PT for the duration of the 3 month warning with a monthly PFT should they pass within the first few weeks to ensure that they stay on the straight and narrow. I have now done this 4 times and each one has achieved the required standard in the first month and maintained it for the remainder of the period.

    As far as discharge is concerned the original MATT 2 guidelines have been somewhat watered down by the latest amendment:

    "Personnel who continue to fail to reach the required standard in the PFT may be subject to AGAI 67
    action for failing to comply with MATT 2 policy, namely, failing to maintain an appropriate level of
    personal fitness, in so far as it demonstrates a lack of application to remain or become operationally
    effective. AGAI 67 action will not result in dismissal for failure to pass the PFT alone; such failure could
    be, however, a contributory factor in an application for discharge.”

    Should this latest one fail to achieve the standard in time then I will certainly be pushing it all the way as he will never have been operationally effective in the Army and therefore does not deserve to take the Queen's shilling any longer.
  4. It is completly unacceptable IMHO, I am no longer serving , when i got to my unit i was warned that the BPFA(as it was then) was a hard course and generally most people added a min on their "normal" time, i just thought being a young know all that id pass easy, i didnt do any training as i was in the "phew training over i can relax now" attitude, which was wrong looking back, I failed my first one (hung over ) then did remidials for two weeks passed two weeks in a row and got my Personal best, out of it all it made me realise i now had more repsonsibilty and how much i actually enjoed PT .

    What im saying is , not all these new guys will be arses, some will be sure but others just need a good old kick in the arse to get them going.

    Good luck getting them goin tho.

    I think they should have a pay cut while unfit for service, if thats not a big enough incentive then nothing is :D

    Oh and my experience at blandford was that the PT was pretty much pointless, once a week if the civvie PT instuctors was not off sick :!:
  5. My Son is on his Phase 2 at Minley and he arrived on Sunday at 2 and as part of thier orientation they got their PT kit on and ran around the various points of interest. His firts 2 weeks have been very heavy on the PT. He did say that around 1/3 of those attending have failed their PFT and are doing remedial PT, so maybe the fault lies at ATRs?
  6. Don't be too hard on the Blandford PTIs, they have to live there you know!

    And it has to be said that they have to do their jobs with their hands tied behind their backs as well.

    On the one hand, the field units are crying out for manpower, so the school doesn't timetable in as much PT as is needed.

    On the other, the attitude of the trainees is different these days, and there's no shame or stigma attached to "pulling a sickie" anymore. And I'm not referring to people who are really sick, just the genuine malingerers that the doctors are scared to disagree with.

    But, all told, the onus is on the trainee to stay fit these days, for better or worse, and that fact should be driven home to them at the earliest possible opportunity.

    And if they should choose to stay unfit, kick the føckers out!
  7. All sounds like a reasonable wake up call to me. :twisted:
  8. It was the same at my last place, 18 and 19 year olds arriving straight from the “home of the Signals”, looking like a bag of the proverbial tied in the middle and about 2 stone over weight. Most failed their PFT's straight out of the box.

    I question one lad and he said that due to failures in trade training, etc PT had been dropped from the schedule to get them through quicker. So I had to ask if he ever went for a run in the mornings, lunch time, after work, weekends etc. The look of shock and ridicule said it all. Thanks just give me the money and I'll fester away in my pit if you don't need me.

    No win situation, keep them in training longer and produce the goods to the detriment of the guys getting shafted for tour on tour as there is no man power. Accept them as they are and then waste valuable weeks and months getting no hopers up to shape that don’t have the inclination or drive to do anything. Makes you wonder whey they joined in the first place.
  9. You are quite right this is an unacceptable standard for a trained soldier. Unfortunately as I seem to remember Phase 2 trainees are that, trainees, and as such do not have to meet the trained soldier standards for all tests.

    For instance they only complete a 6 mile CFT in two hours carrying 10 kg. I also believe that the press up / sit up reqirement is lower and run time for 1.5 miles is 12 min. It is the units responsibility to train from CMR levels to trained soldier levels in the first 6 months. This is why trainees are not supposed to be deployed in the first 6 months of arriving in their first unit.

    My figures for times may be slightly out so I wait out for a trusty PTI.
  10. I must say that having just returned from Blandford, I must defend some of the phase 2's who were in my block. Yes, alot of them would fester in their room until they were on duty. But some of them would go for a quick run after tea before they went to the naafi for the night.

    Only a couple of them mind. They didn't really get the chance to do their own pt at they always seemed to have to be somewhere. They do have PFTs as I spoke to a couple of them about it, but it seems to be once a week at the most.
  11. comnpletly agree that there awas LOADS of biffs when i was there, my pt was sheduled for a fri afternoon so was always cut short so people could get away.

    Its only now im out that i fully appreciate how good army pt is, id pay to do a few sessions each week now :D.

    For me once the penny dropped that i was no longer just waiting to be told what to do all the time is when i started my own PT, but i found it really hard to push myself as hard as a good pt session.od

    As i said my SSM pointed out if you are taking the money but not staying fit you are basically commiting fruad, that made me think alot.

    This makes me want to be back there now instead of festering in this office in docklands
  12. Biscuits - I was not having a go at the PTIs - as always they do a good job when they get hold of the little scrotebags (sorry phase 2 trainees) for PT sessions.

    I think the fault lies partially with the system that focuses on delivery of technical trade training without taking into account the full picture of what is reqd by the field Army from a soldier leaving Phase 2. The fault also lies with society that has bred a generation of slouch potatoes and 12-14 wks of Phase 1 trg will not instill the self-motivation into a young soldier to break this. Finally responsibility must lie with the 'Tp Cpls' who now 'live' (their offices are based there) in the block with the soldiers. They should be able to spot the lazy buggers and give them a gentle nudge in the right direction - otherwise what are they getting paid for.

    I must also pick up on COMMSRUS' point. As far as I am aware soldiers should leave Blandford at the end of Phase 2 as fully trained soldiers able to pass the PFT and full CFT. If the reqt is for anything less than this then this needs to be briefed to the field Army so we know that we still have to conduct more training. I do however thinkn that COMMSRUS is wrong - happy (or not if he is correct) to be told otherwise.
  13. ...and me, but it all falls apart when your OC Tp/Sqn or even SSM weighs a metric tonne and couldnt pass a pie shop let alone a PFT. You cant have one rule for one and not for another. Can you put your hand on your heart and say you dont know of one? I think it is unacceptable for a ph2 to come staright from Blandford and fail one, but the Regt that he joins has to have it's $hit in one sock before it starts putting him on a 3 month bender.

    If you go down the road of less wages for unfit then where do you draw the line for genuine injurys? what about somebody who was injured on tour? -"Sorry about the IED fella, but your now on 20% less till you pass your PFT and we can send you back out there!" -I cant see it somehow.

    If you went down that road it would probably all come down to a doctors decision, then you would get people claiming to have that well known disorder SDD or FOG (salad dodging disease or fear of gymnasiums)
  14. Y_P_R,

    I can safely say that as a Sqn I have my Sh$t in order. Other than the fact I have a ridiculously high downgraded rate of about 22%, of the remainder of the Sqn 99% have passed their PFT in the past 6 months including me as OC and all of my offrs and SNCOs (I cant remember by why I was down the 1%, but there was a good, non-fitness, related reason). Personnaly I might not be the fitest, but I can still, just, pass the standard PFT without allowances for old age!

    Your point about cutting pay is completely fair as this would never work. The only thing that will work is a genuine threat (that is enforcable - sadly not fully the case with the currunt rules) to discharge the soldier after fair warning.
  15. As I said in my original post my figures may be slightly out. Having now spoken to the three lads straight from the factory none have ever completeed an 8 mile CFT or carried more than 10 kg. All are very fit lads and pass the PFT in sub 9 min (B@strds), but all seem to recall people on their course only getting in the Sh1t if they were over 12 min in B'ford.

    The chain of command at my unit was certainly well aware of the difference of phase 2 training and trained soldier. With the advent of MATT it may have changed again.

    I would also point out that trade training is also supposed to be continued at a working unit (both tech and operator). An obvious example is vehicle familiarisation training. Operator typing skills is another as well as JMH.

    Phase 2 soldiers get a basic level of all round training at the factory. It is then up to the working unit to give specific on the job training to bring the soldiers up to standard (fitness included). Hence the reduction of time spent on courses in Blandford.