Peugeot 208 Allure 1.2l 82HP "Engine Fault - Repair Needed."

Peugeot solution:

Go to petrol station.
Buy petrol can.
Fill with 5 litres of unleaded
Place can in car.
Take top of can and invert.
Throw lighted match into car.
Retreat to safe distance.
Claim on insurance
 
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ugly

LE
Moderator
Again, thanks muchly to all respondents. Appropriate humour here and there but within still helpful and well-meant responses. ArRSe at its best as a community - contrast with some of the lamenting commentary by mods regarding falling standards on threads such as the recently-killed "BB ignore" thread, etc.

@Arte_et_Marte @Boris_Johnson @ugly @The_Duke - see; there is hope! Maybe... :)

Thanks again, all.
Before you invoke us Mods we only facilitate what's asked of us. don't like it then don't read it!
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
Don't worry about that, mate - I readily admitted already that I've analogue knowledge in a digital age. Crack on and school me - I need the upgrade.

The problem with narrowing it down is that, for example, the engine ran normally with a bit of stutter on the way in to town tonight, as already related, but was running rougher than a badgers arse on the way back. After I let the fan run out and the system fully shut down then restarted it to put it in the garage it was running sweet as a nut.

Based on old knowledge, the knowledge of ArRSe (which has been really very good on this thread) and a bit of Google-fu it seems likely the culprit is something interferring with the EMUs ability to control the timing (what was handled by the vacuum advance unit on an "analogue" engine). What I can't fathom is that inconsistency - a knacked sensor should be permanently offline, logically, giving a consistent rough-running as far as I can understand how they're built and operate. It's like the computer is getting intermittent signals, which makes me suspect it could be multiple sensors on the fritz but the computer hasn't twigged to it yet. I.e. it's determined the failure as X and thus doesn't notice Y and Z is also causing the stutter it's reporting. Or is it more sophistcated than that? I have to admit I've no idea how the sensor failure reporting works. I would presume that a failure to receive consistent within-parameter data from a sensor would trigger an event code regardless of other factors but, then, the firmware is written by humans...
have you tried taking it for a decent long run, use 3rd gear in a 30 to keep it spinning
drive it hard and to the rev delimiter
get the engine glowing hot and ticking
that often cures problems
 

NSP

LE
have you tried taking it for a decent long run, use 3rd gear in a 30 to keep it spinning
drive it hard and to the rev delimiter
get the engine glowing hot and ticking
that often cures problems
I couldn't get it over 3000rpm in any gear or no gear at all last night!
 

NSP

LE
Well, it's official - 3x new coil packs on order.

Took them out yesterday and they were a bit moist, as were the plug pockets (note BFO seal around the rim of the pocket):-

1.jpg
2.jpg


So ran the engine up to operating temp then whipped the coils out again and let the steam escape before shoving some kitchen roll down the pockets to get the leftovers.
3.jpg


Swapped 1 and 3 over to test but got two instances of the same code (P1337). Oh, but look - the two outboard coils are both cylinder one! The middle one is embossed with 2. There's no 3. Which explains why there's two P1337 codes instead of a P1337 and a P1339 - and that both coils are Donald Ducked.
4.jpg


So as a precaution I'm having No.2 swapped out as well. Which comes to £450 quid - although that does include this year's service.

Need to learn more about these modern-fangled computer-driven motors, mefinks.

Oh, and because they don't keep the things in stock in the parts department I haven't got a car until Monday, maybe Tuesday. Still, at least it'll dry out in their nice, warm workshop (as opposed to my cold, damp garage).
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
Have you taken the spark plugs out? sounds like there may be 'tracking' down one of them - look for burn marks down the porcelain.
The numbers on the coil packs have no relevance to the cylinder, or DTC, they are all the same and can be put in any cylinder, obviously connected to the correct wiring of course! As mentioned previously, there is an underlying issue causing the DTC to be logged on the same cylinder with the coil packs swapped, if that is rusty water on the coil packs, chances are the plugs are shorting the spark down the outside rather than through the electrode - path of least resistance, literally.
 

NSP

LE
Have you taken the spark plugs out? sounds like there may be 'tracking' down one of them - look for burn marks down the porcelain.
The numbers on the coil packs have no relevance to the cylinder, or DTC, they are all the same and can be put in any cylinder, obviously connected to the correct wiring of course! As mentioned previously, there is an underlying issue causing the DTC to be logged on the same cylinder with the coil packs swapped, if that is rusty water on the coil packs, chances are the plugs are shorting the spark down the outside rather than through the electrode - path of least resistance, literally.
The centre pack, marked 2, has a different guide key position than the others and won't fit in the pockets on the other two cylinders (I tried). Well, it will go in but on the piss so the hole for the securing bolt doesn't line up with the securing hole on the engine. I presumed that the number on the pack related to cylinder, with the packs having a code in the electronics to tell the computer which cylinder it fired...?

The tech says the plugs are fine (not due to be swapped out on this service, apparently). They're silly money through the dealer so if they are duff I'll get a set from Halfords or somewhere and swap them out myself - easy enough and I already have the tools. Will just have to devise a way to get the residue from the mucky water out of the pocket first so that it doesn't fall into the cylinder.
 

NSP

LE
By the by, I looked the new 208 over whilst I was waiting. Smashing looking beast, especially from the front. Would look well intimidating in Nera Black coming up the right lane on the motorway in the mirror of some tit doing 20mph less than the rest of the traffic in that lane. Might encourage them to GTF out of the way a bit quicker, like before the following traffic has to dump speed.

Cracking interior, too - very nice "glass cockpit." I particularly like the 3D LCD dash - speed, fuel and RPM appear to be about an inch closer to the driver, with satnav behind and other gauges and lights to the sides. Finally the satnav is as close to HUD as it's probably legal to get it. In line with the driver, albeit look-down - but the nice thing about the dash design is, like on my 2014 model, the dash is set to be unobstructive to the view ahead but only a flick of the eyeballs down to view. The centre touchscreen is now angled towards the driver, too. The controls for the fan, heating, a/c etc. are now higher, bigger and actual switches (albeit toggle) rather than buttons. One gripe I have about my 208 is that the controls for the ventilation are low in front of the gearstick and small so you have to actually look away from the road if you want to adjust the fan or blow direction.

There's three levels - Active, Allure and GTLine (which looks well tasty, with a wider centre touchscreen. You can have petrol, diesel or electric. Two flavours of 1.2l Puretech petrol - 75HP and 100HP (£16,500 and £17,500 respectively). The electric 208 Allure is £32000!!! Er, no thanks...!!

So, with a bit more bulk to it, the basic engine loses 7HP to its slightly lighter predecessor. I'd have to go for the 100HP for another £1000. Also, the VED on these engines is now £145 a year. My 2014 208 attracts a VED of £20pa - even though the CO2 is the same at 103g/km, according to the little efficiency placard on the back of the stand with the tech specs and price on it.

I think I'll stick with the one I've got (£16,000 new, bought for £11,400 less the £4000 I got trade-in on my old one), thanks.

When it's working again...
 
By the by, I looked the new 208 over whilst I was waiting. Smashing looking beast, especially from the front. Would look well intimidating in Nera Black coming up the right lane on the motorway in the mirror of some tit doing 20mph less than the rest of the traffic in that lane. Might encourage them to GTF out of the way a bit quicker, like before the following traffic has to dump speed.

Cracking interior, too - very nice "glass cockpit." I particularly like the 3D LCD dash - speed, fuel and RPM appear to be about an inch closer to the driver, with satnav behind and other gauges and lights to the sides. Finally the satnav is as close to HUD as it's probably legal to get it. In line with the driver, albeit look-down - but the nice thing about the dash design is, like on my 2014 model, the dash is set to be unobstructive to the view ahead but only a flick of the eyeballs down to view. The centre touchscreen is now angled towards the driver, too. The controls for the fan, heating, a/c etc. are now higher, bigger and actual switches (albeit toggle) rather than buttons. One gripe I have about my 208 is that the controls for the ventilation are low in front of the gearstick and small so you have to actually look away from the road if you want to adjust the fan or blow direction.

There's three levels - Active, Allure and GTLine (which looks well tasty, with a wider centre touchscreen. You can have petrol, diesel or electric. Two flavours of 1.2l Puretech petrol - 75HP and 100HP (£16,500 and £17,500 respectively). The electric 208 Allure is £32000!!! Er, no thanks...!!

So, with a bit more bulk to it, the basic engine loses 7HP to its slightly lighter predecessor. I'd have to go for the 100HP for another £1000. Also, the VED on these engines is now £145 a year. My 2014 208 attracts a VED of £20pa - even though the CO2 is the same at 103g/km, according to the little efficiency placard on the back of the stand with the tech specs and price on it.

I think I'll stick with the one I've got (£16,000 new, bought for £11,400 less the £4000 I got trade-in on my old one), thanks.

When it's working again...
Sounds like the salesman is very good at his job.

You bought a f*cked up nearly new car off of them and now thinking about buying another.
 

NSP

LE
Sounds like the salesman is very good at his job.

You bought a f*cked up nearly new car off of them and now thinking about buying another.
He was a pushy twunt. Kept trying to sell me a 308 and even a 2008, even though I'd made it clear that they were more than I needed and a 2008 wouldn't fit in my garage, anyway. Only when I'd told him that if he didn't stop trying to sell me stuff I'd made it clear I didn't want I'd walk did he get with the programme.

It was brand new. Had 6 miles on it when I collected it (which is about what they collect on the rolling road in the factory and on/off transporters, based on my time doing controls and automation stuff in car factories, various).

It was ex-showroom. After eight weeks on the showroom floor the dealer has to pay the manufacturer for the display models so they put them into a central pool and sell them off cheap if they meet the customer spec. Meanwhile the next display model comes in for eight weeks and so it rolls.

They'd rather make a few hundred on selling it below catalogue price than lose substantially more in penalty charges to the manufacturer. Well, so sayeth the salesman when I asked how he could hand me sixteen grand of mid-range for the price of an entry-level one. Apparently they gamble on the part-ex' one getting more at auction than they trade it in for - which, given my 2009 Clio was immaculate, five years old, had 16,500miles on it (so basically it was only just over a year old mechanically), FDSH, etc. they probably managed it.

Top tip: if buying a new car and you've settled on what you want with the salesman and he doesn't say, "Let's see what's in the pool," then say, "So, how about you see if there's one that meets our requirements in the showroom pool, then...?" Note: ex-display, not ex-demonstrator!!
 
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I used to repair them after coming off the docks at Bristol.
Time is of the essence and the minimum wage drivers that they employ don't hang about.
I cannot blame them, as the quicker they get the delivery done the more they get paid.
Don't be fooled into thinking that the new car you just shelled out for has been lovingly treated.
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
The centre pack, marked 2, has a different guide key position than the others and won't fit in the pockets on the other two cylinders (I tried). Well, it will go in but on the piss so the hole for the securing bolt doesn't line up with the securing hole on the engine. I presumed that the number on the pack related to cylinder, with the packs having a code in the electronics to tell the computer which cylinder it fired...?

The tech says the plugs are fine (not due to be swapped out on this service, apparently). They're silly money through the dealer so if they are duff I'll get a set from Halfords or somewhere and swap them out myself - easy enough and I already have the tools. Will just have to devise a way to get the residue from the mucky water out of the pocket first so that it doesn't fall into the cylinder.
Must admit, i've not come across differently keyed connectors on coil packs, maybe a Pug thing - I predominantly worked on Citroen / DS stuff - there is NO WAY the plugs are fine if they're immersed in rusty water, the way i'd clear them out prior to removal is air blower down the hole, dry rag over the top. Not sure how he'd know they are fine if they're still fitted though. The coil packs deffo are not coded, the DTC's are triggered by cause/effect monitoring of cylinder contribution, there is no feedback from the individual coil packs or spark plugs.
ETA other than they are actually connected and do not have an internal, measurable defect (too high or low internal resistance etc.)
 
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OneTenner

Old-Salt
I used to repair them after coming off the docks at Bristol.
Time is of the essence and the minimum wage drivers that they employ don't hang about.
I cannot blame them, as the quicker they get the delivery done the more they get paid.
Don't be fooled into thinking that the new car you just shelled out for has been lovingly treated.
Couldn't agree more - same goes for transporter drivers, PDI tech's and worst of all, sales staff....
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
...It was brand new. Had 6 miles on it when I collected it (which is about what they collect on the rolling road in the factory and on/off transporters, based on my time doing controls and automation stuff in car factories, various).
....
You do know that 'delivery mileage' can be reset up to ten times (max 50 miles per reset) don't you? Most don't bother as it's usually less than 50 miles but where a stock order car has to be shifted on trade plates, it's not unknown for the route to be via brand dealers for the delivery mileage to be reset several times. Not all mfr's allow this, most Euro ones do though.
 

NSP

LE
You do know that 'delivery mileage' can be reset up to ten times (max 50 miles per reset) don't you? Most don't bother as it's usually less than 50 miles but where a stock order car has to be shifted on trade plates, it's not unknown for the route to be via brand dealers for the delivery mileage to be reset several times. Not all mfr's allow this, most Euro ones do though.
I don't think a delivery driver had any involvement; I watched them drive it off the transporter in the dealers yard.
 
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