Peugeot 208 Allure 1.2l 82HP "Engine Fault - Repair Needed."

NSP

LE
He has no shame, and I also want her phone number.

As for the car.... the crank sensor is not expensive or difficult to change.

Crank sensor ~£20, cam sensor ~£45. Replace both and still cheaper than a dealer diagnostic. Coil packs are also about £45 each.

I'd personally try a local garage or better still a Pug specialist first.
If I knew which of the myriad things on the block with leads going to them were which I'd have a go. I already found the knock sensor - there's no way I'm getting at that without some extra equipment, like axle stands and stuff, as you can only get at it from below. It's on the back of the block and it looks like a few other things have to come off before you can get a socket on the bolt head.

Fortunate, then, that it didn't come up with a P0330, really.

Before sarcasm descends, I've asked Google to show me where all these things are. Either my 'Fu is dying with my engine or no-one actually knows. I spunked eight minutes away watching a Youtube video with the title "Peugeot 208 knock sensor - where to find it" and all the little Manc twat did was waffle on about how cool his channel was and how cool his pimped-up GTi was followed by ten seconds of, "So, the sensor's down the back of the engine." Didn't even shine a light and point the camera down there. Twat.

The fat mess that runs my local - badly - is a Manc' with the same irritating nasal whine as Terry Christian and the guy in the video.

I don't like him, either.
 

NSP

LE
Worth cleaning all electrical connectors, especially the coil pack as is seems to be implicated by the DTCs.
'Kin hell!! If they are, as I assume, on top of the engine on the plugs, I'd have killed it long before they got wet! They're about four inches higher than the air intake!
 

NSP

LE
@Joshua Slocum this is a thread trying to help sort out a dodgy car engine. It is not the place to be discussing a tall, slim, leggy girl who liked wearing a pvc cat suit, or telling me she was wearing stockings and no knickers knowing I couldn’t do anything about it for a while. Have you no shame?;)

RP.
Oh, I don't know. It passes the time whilst waiting for more info/solution ideas.
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
Don't worry about the fan, that's running because it's an emissions related fault and the fault handling strategy stored in the ECM is telling the fan control module to run @85 - 100% with an overrun on shutdown now that the event threshold has been reached (the EML only illuminates when there is a detected fault which will affect engine emissions, thanks CA & EU!) It's not possible to say if it's safe to drive as the root cause of the logged DTC hasn't been established. Sometimes it's best to keep the info given to the tech as clear as possible - don't give them your best guess, just say what the symptoms are, how it's reproduced and any other salient info (e.g. went through a flood a couple of weeks ago, DTC P1337 persistently logged). If you don't trust the place you're taking it, why are you taking it there? Diagnosing a fault correctly first time is always more involved than 'best guess' or what 'the internet' says it is. the fix is almost always easy (price may not be easy on the pocket though!) compared to the diagnostic path, most techs would rather be given the symptoms rather than an opinion to the cause, it prevents confirmation bias muddying the waters and avoids having to spend time explaining why the actual cause is not what the driver has convinced themselves it is.
ETA: Don't unbolt the knock sensor unless you need to replace it, and then, make sure you know the torque setting and are able to torque the bolt precisely.... random running issues can occur it it's overtightened...
Cyl. 1 mechanically is the timing belt end, Cyl. 3 is gearbox end BUT! the DTC's are written by software geeks, in some cases across PSA engines, Cyl. 1 is gearbox end.... to be safe, swap the coil packs either end and leave the one in the middle alone
 
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load_fin

War Hero
'Kin hell!! If they are, as I assume, on top of the engine on the plugs, I'd have killed it long before they got wet! They're about four inches higher than the air intake!
Driving through deep water makes it spray everywhere. Water can get to the highest, remotest places under the bonnet.
Ingress via the intake need not be a problem If it's a spray or aerosol, but liquid water will be.

Keeping the air intake above the water will prevent immediate engine damage, but may set up delayed action problems.
 

NSP

LE
Don't worry about the fan, that's running because it's an emissions related fault and the fault handling strategy stored in the ECM is telling the fan control module to run @85 - 100% with an overrun on shutdown now that the event threshold has been reached (the EML only illuminates when there is a detected fault which will affect engine emissions, thanks CA & EU!) It's not possible to say if it's safe to drive as the root cause of the logged DTC hasn't been established. Sometimes it's best to keep the info given to the tech as clear as possible - don't give them your best guess, just say what the symptoms are, how it's reproduced and any other salient info (e.g. went through a flood a couple of weeks ago, DTC P1337 persistently logged). If you don't trust the place you're taking it, why are you taking it there? Diagnosing a fault correctly first time is always more involved than 'best guess' or what 'the internet' says it is. the fix is almost always easy (price may not be easy on the pocket though!) compared to the diagnostic path, most techs would rather be given the symptoms rather than an opinion to the cause, it prevents confirmation bias muddying the waters and avoids having to spend time explaining why the actual cause is not what the driver has convinced themselves it is.
ETA: Don't unbolt the knock sensor unless you need to replace it, and then, make sure you know the torque setting and are able to torque the bolt precisely.... random running issues can occur it it's overtightened...
Cyl. 1 mechanically is the timing belt end, Cyl. 3 is gearbox end BUT! the DTC's are written by software geeks, in some cases across PSA engines, Cyl. 1 is gearbox end.... to be safe, swap the coil packs either end and leave the one in the middle alone
Useful to know - my OBD2 reader has a mode to read an emissions check (or somesuch) and out of curiosity I played with it earlier and it showed all within limits.

I was thinking in terms of the noise it was making - the computer was clearly not setting the timing anywhere near where it should have been.
 

NSP

LE
Driving through deep water makes it spray everywhere. Water can get to the highest, remotest places under the bonnet.
Ingress via the intake need not be a problem If it's a spray or aerosol, but liquid water will be.

Keeping the air intake above the water will prevent immediate engine damage, but may set up delayed action problems.
Aye - but it's pretty shut in in the engine bay - the wheels are completely screened from the engine by bulkheads and the intake isn't behind the open grill, it's behind a trim piece, the top of the trunking being level with the top of and alongside the left headlight.

Also, there was no trace of water splash on the underside of the bonnet or top of the engine - and if you've seen the dashcam stills I put on the self-taken photo thread you can see how thick and filthy the water was.

I'd expect a lot of residue from that lot if any of it had got into those places.
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
...- the computer was clearly not setting the timing anywhere near where it should have been.
With respect, that's just a guess - a bad coil pack, wiring or spark plug could give the same symptoms - as could any number of things not logging a DTC of their own, the ECM will only log a DTC if a signal is outside of known good limits, the signal can be inside those limits but still give 'bad' info affecting the running of the engine, for example, air temperature or barometric pressure - either can be in range but a wrong reading can play havoc with the fuelling.
 

NSP

LE
With respect
Don't worry about that, mate - I readily admitted already that I've analogue knowledge in a digital age. Crack on and school me - I need the upgrade.

The problem with narrowing it down is that, for example, the engine ran normally with a bit of stutter on the way in to town tonight, as already related, but was running rougher than a badgers arse on the way back. After I let the fan run out and the system fully shut down then restarted it to put it in the garage it was running sweet as a nut.

Based on old knowledge, the knowledge of ArRSe (which has been really very good on this thread) and a bit of Google-fu it seems likely the culprit is something interferring with the EMUs ability to control the timing (what was handled by the vacuum advance unit on an "analogue" engine). What I can't fathom is that inconsistency - a knacked sensor should be permanently offline, logically, giving a consistent rough-running as far as I can understand how they're built and operate. It's like the computer is getting intermittent signals, which makes me suspect it could be multiple sensors on the fritz but the computer hasn't twigged to it yet. I.e. it's determined the failure as X and thus doesn't notice Y and Z is also causing the stutter it's reporting. Or is it more sophistcated than that? I have to admit I've no idea how the sensor failure reporting works. I would presume that a failure to receive consistent within-parameter data from a sensor would trigger an event code regardless of other factors but, then, the firmware is written by humans...
 
Bin the electrics and do what the rally teams do.
Couple of twin forties and a performance exhaust plus/manifold.
It may void the warranty, but if you keep the original bits you can always bolt them back on.
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
Without spending a few pages on it, if there were a 'global' implausible signal, it would affect all cylinders more or less equally - there is another DTC range that would be set indicating non cylinder-specific misfires, yours is specific to one cylinder, it's a three cylinder engine so you will be down 33% not 25%, additionally each cylinders contribution is expected to carry the crank through 120 degrees of rotation, not 90 degrees, so the loss or partial loss of one cylinders contribution will feel worse than it would with a four cylinder engine. As mentioned, don't take the DTC as pointing at a specific component, more of an indication of where a detected fault is manifesting itself. try swapping coil packs 1 & 3, if a different DTC is logged (clear the current ones and leave ignition off / key out for a minimum of 120 seconds once cleared) then that's a good case to suspect the coil pack - having taken the opportunity to check the plugs & coil packs for wear and / or damage - look for differences, if necassary using cyl. 2 as the control to find which looks right, quite often, by looking for physical changes, the root cause can be identified. Do the same with the spark plugs, not forgetting the bore of the spark plug tube.
 
Three Cylinders in a car. I arrest my case.
Swap out the injectors and exhaust.
You obviously have some mechanical knowledge so it could be a fun experiment.
 

NSP

LE
Without spending a few pages on it, if there were a 'global' implausible signal, it would affect all cylinders more or less equally - there is another DTC range that would be set indicating non cylinder-specific misfires, yours is specific to one cylinder, it's a three cylinder engine so you will be down 33% not 25%, additionally each cylinders contribution is expected to carry the crank through 120 degrees of rotation, not 90 degrees, so the loss or partial loss of one cylinders contribution will feel worse than it would with a four cylinder engine. As mentioned, don't take the DTC as pointing at a specific component, more of an indication of where a detected fault is manifesting itself. try swapping coil packs 1 & 3, if a different DTC is logged (clear the current ones and leave ignition off / key out for a minimum of 120 seconds once cleared) then that's a good case to suspect the coil pack - having taken the opportunity to check the plugs & coil packs for wear and / or damage - look for differences, if necassary using cyl. 2 as the control to find which looks right, quite often, by looking for physical changes, the root cause can be identified. Do the same with the spark plugs, not forgetting the bore of the spark plug tube.
Cheers, chap. I'll revisit this in daylight, try the coil swap, see what happens.
 
go back to basics mate and checkfuses thoroughly.
sounds daft I know, but I have a 2.8 m/home that had those symptoms''turned out it was blowing a fuse controlling fuel pump/solenoid.
 
Apart from the original post and post #2, nobody seems to have considered the possibility that watery petrol might be the problem. If you did put contaminated fuel in your tank, that could account for progressive worsening of the running as the fuel/water sloshes about.

Rather than Googling for specifically Peugeot faults, try searching for complaints about the supermarket where you last bought fuel (or ask at the kiosk).
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
Possible dirty fuel filter which needs changing?
 
Three Cylinders in a car. I arrest my case.
Swap out the injectors and exhaust.
You obviously have some mechanical knowledge so it could be a fun experiment.
Yep. The only time you should have three cylinders in a car is when there are another three facing them, in a V configuration.
 
Three Cylinders in a car. I arrest my case.
Swap out the injectors and exhaust.
You obviously have some mechanical knowledge so it could be a fun experiment.
I had a new Linwood built Chrysler 1600GLS Estate Avenger with 3 pots.
On and off. More off than on.
Same car had had it's rear bumper factory fitted upside down and as I recall all too vividly no less than 25 PDI faults.
Mind you, that was Linwood for you.

I mentioned my Renault Laguna doing odd things on the same stretch of dual carriageway earlier in the post like the OP's....but this take it to another level.
Best cars I've ever had were the ones with Jack all leccies involved.
Points, plugs, condenser, K&N filter ,twin SU's or Weber DcoEs.
Magic.
 
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I had a new Linwood built Chrysler 1600GLS Estate Avenger with 3 pots.
On and off. More off than on.
Same car had had it's rear bumper factory fitted upside down and as I recall all too vividly no less than 25 PDI faults.
Mind you, that was Linwood for you.

I mentioned my Renault Laguna doing odd things on the same stretch of dual carriageway earlier in the post like the OP's....but this take it to another level.
Best cars I've ever had were the ones with Jack all leccies involved.
They were worse than you thought at Linwood, as the Avenger 1600 was supposed to have 4 cylinders.
 
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