Peugeot 208 Allure 1.2l 82HP "Engine Fault - Repair Needed."

The next year they tried to tell me my sump gasket was blown and it would be £200 for the part and £200 for labour. I looked under the car and gasket was fine. The oil was dripping from the drain nut. I twiddled it. It was not even finger-tight. I told the missus that they'd changed out the oil and the sump nut washer but left the nut loose to make it look like there was a leak. They'd also not noticed that one of the new plugs was duff as they'd test-driven it and pronounced it was fine. I picked it up, started it and noticed the misfire immediately. They then tried to tell me I had to pay £200 diagnostic fee (even though I'd diagnosed it already) and £50 for the new plug. I set them straight on that one sharpish...

Monday morning herself was in the office armed with my signed statement and had opened a file before her first coffee was drained. About three months later, after a probe by TS, they went down. The site shortly thereafter was redeveloped into a block of warden-monitored OAP flats.

I wish I'd stuck with her, or at least stayed friends afterwards, as she's clearly useful to know.
There was an issue with sump gaskets on those. I fitted one for a mate, having got hold of the relevant Service Bulletin. Due to the wanky way that Renault chuck cars together:

1. Drain oil.
2. Manhandle sump from engine. A right palaver.
3. Clean sump.
4. Fit new gasket

And here's the best bit: in order not to mangle the new gaset on refitting, one had to CUT A BIT OFF THE SUMP with a hacksaw. Official, from Renault.

Or take the whole engine out from the top.
 
Try having a look Here..
Lots of knowledge .
 

NSP

LE
It's on the engine block, from memory not particularly accessible - it's a piezo-electric device, what are you going to be able to check? My advice would be to wait until you at least have a fault code reader and take it from there -having thought a bit more about it, there were / are issues with the variable timing solenoids, which can also give the symptoms you describe
FFS! Too many electrical gizmos these days!
 
Had similar problems last week on a diesel clio , airbag warning lights coming on intermittently as well as abs warning and low battery light. It also cooked out at speed for a few seconds with everything dying then carried on as normal. Turns out the alternator was breaking down and had to get the correct one from renault due to borrow stories of standard replacements working but the warning lights staying on and a mot fail in the future.

I'm betting it's a alternator. Worth taking to a independent with diagnostics, it's only going to be £45 or so to find out rather than a crappy code reader which gives you a vague idea at best.
 

RigPig

War Hero
In my experience, (and in a certain TR7 in the '80s) it is normally women who have their knees behind their ears in a car.
Its quite tight in the front of a 3 seat Landrover 110 when the bird you’re with is 5’10” and you‘re 6’1”. The back was empty and she didn’t fancy bare metal. Opel Manta though was very good. The girlfriend was very leggy and up for all sorts.

Sorry I can’t help with car electrics. My leccy skills are shocking.
RP.
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
Had similar problems last week on a diesel clio , airbag warning lights coming on intermittently as well as abs warning and low battery light. It also cooked out at speed for a few seconds with everything dying then carried on as normal. Turns out the alternator was breaking down and had to get the correct one from renault due to borrow stories of standard replacements working but the warning lights staying on and a mot fail in the future.

I'm betting it's a alternator. Worth taking to a independent with diagnostics, it's only going to be £45 or so to find out rather than a crappy code reader which gives you a vague idea at best.
In this case unlikely to be alternator, as you found out, voltage-based wierdness spreads to other systems too, SRS being very voltage sensitive. Most alternators are controlled by the engine management system via a data connection (LIN if you're interested), because of this, alternator diagnostics will be stored in the engine control module. I agree that taking DTC's at face value can lead to expensive blind alleys, the ability to interpret the available data and compare with 'common sense checks' is generally why diag. / systems tech's get paid a premium.
@NSP Knock sensors are not a new thing, first one I saw was on an Austin Maestro!
 
From bitter experience, Pugs are either very good or very bad. My Sis in Law's 206 [which she loved] developed big end knock at 56,000 miles. Common problem on that model. Our business development manager had had several Pugs on lease, until a 308 that was a pile of shite and he never had another Pug, getting Skodas instead.

On the other hand, my oppo sold a 406 with 260,000 miles on it to a taxi driver. He sold it because it had various problems like non-working windows, dodgy central lockiing etc etc. He told the bloke exactly what was wrong with it. We checked the MOT database and it had a recorded 808,000 miles on the odometer at it's last MOT (whick it passed). One particular year it had done 110,000 miles between MOTs.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
Its quite tight in the front of a 3 seat Landrover 110 when the bird you’re with is 5’10” and you‘re 6’1”. The back was empty and she didn’t fancy bare metal. Opel Manta though was very good. The girlfriend was very leggy and up for all sorts.

Sorry I can’t help with car electrics. My leccy skills are shocking.
RP.
Tell us more about the leggy bird
bugger the pug
 
FFS! Too many electrical gizmos these days!
I half-joke with the mechanics at work, saying they are treading more into my territory with all the computer crap they have to put up with on cars today.

Funnily enough, I say this to them while I'm spending more time in the workshops maintaining the computers that diagnose cars these days as the manufacturers keep demanding more and more powerfully computers for the mechanics.
 

NSP

LE
Right; according to the gadget there's two codes logged, both P1337 - which it says is manufacturer specific.

The internet says that is a cam shaft position sensor fault. Which makes sense; if it doesn't know the cam position it can't correct the timing properly, right?

I told the garage what the codes were and they said, "We'll still have to do a diagnostic. That'll be £99.99." Kerching!

Quelle surprise!

They can't do it until Friday afternoon so that's me sans car for the w/e, I expect.

Give me my old 1.6l Cavalier hatch - simple engine, plenty of room around it to work and not a piece of decorative plastic to remove first in sight!
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
Any code that has a '1' as the second digit is manufacturer specific (there are another two digits that your reader isn't showing, even if they are '00') PSA use P1337xx to indicate coil pack problems, you say there are two stored? do you mean two occurences of the same code or two beginning with P1337?
'the internet' incorrectly identifies P1337xx as variously camshaft position sensor or crankshaft position sensor, mainly used as such on Jap systems

For info:
Diagnostic Code Identifiers (SAE / EOBD Standards)

Here are the explanations of the make up of a diagnostic fault code Prefix:


First (Character)Identifies the Related System
PPowertrain
BBody
CChassis
UNetwork
Second (Digit)Type of Code
0Complies with EOBD Standard
1Manufacturer Specific Enhanced
Third (Digit)Sub-System Affected
0Fuel and air metering and auxiliary emission controls
1Fuel & Air Metering
2Fuel & Air Metering Injector Circuit
3Ignition System or Misfire
4Auxilliary Emission Controls
5Vehicle Speed & Idle Control Systems
6Computer Output Circuit
7Transmission
8Transmission
Fourth & Fifth (Digits)These refer to the specific fault within the sub-system

As mentioned, there are also sixth & seventh digits, these can usually be ignored (as they are 00) but not always, for example P063305 (security target ID transfer failed) would have a completely different fault trace & resolution to P063355 (security no target in EMS) At worst, one would require a new key or transponder, the other would require a new ECM, without being able to read the last two digits, it could be expensive guesswork.

ETA:-
P1337 - cyl 1
P1338 - cyl 2
P1339 - cyl 3

Note that it's the misfire that is detected, not the cause. After checking the spark plugs and coil packs for defects, tracking marks etc, you could swap two coil packs over and driving it until it faults, if the DTC has moved to another cylinder, then it's likely to be the coil pack or wiring to it, if it's still the same DTC, time to look for other causes.
 
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RigPig

War Hero
Tell us more about the leggy bird
bugger the pug
@Joshua Slocum this is a thread trying to help sort out a dodgy car engine. It is not the place to be discussing a tall, slim, leggy girl who liked wearing a pvc cat suit, or telling me she was wearing stockings and no knickers knowing I couldn’t do anything about it for a while. Have you no shame?;)

RP.
 
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He has no shame, and I also want her phone number.

As for the car.... the crank sensor is not expensive or difficult to change.

Crank sensor ~£20, cam sensor ~£45. Replace both and still cheaper than a dealer diagnostic. Coil packs are also about £45 each.

I'd personally try a local garage or better still a Pug specialist first.
 

load_fin

War Hero
You said earlier something about flood damage. Faults due to corrosion from water ingress can take a while to develop.

Worth cleaning all electrical connectors, especially the coil pack as is seems to be implicated by the DTCs.

Try this stuff:

 

NSP

LE
you say there are two stored? do you mean two occurences of the same code or two beginning with P1337?
There are four now. Four instances of P1337. I think it logs a new instance on each start.

However, just been into town and the skipping is there out of the garage but the warning has gone from the dash. Plug the gadget in and it says no codes logged. Leave it in showing realtime coolant temp as the fan overran the other day at full tilt whilst the dash gauge was nominal at 92°C.

Get where I'm going with intermittent stutter, coolant at 85°C (the operating temperature, according to the manual). No fan overrun. Spend ten minutes attending to business, restart. Damn thing sounds like it is on one cyclinder - or, rather, sounds like my old Cav' did when I accidentally broke the vacuum advance tube off the carb' venturi. Well rough. Pull over for a Windows-style switch off and on again. Fan is going like the clappers, Dash gauge (presumably block temperature?) is nominal, coolant is at 82°C. Fan stops. Restart, rough as a badger's arse. Limp home at 30mph.

Park up, switch off, engine temp. nominal, coolant nominal, fan in full-on neighbour-disturbing overspeed. Open bonnet, back of the hand check radiator. Luke-warm. Engine top; stone cold. Block; warm but not so I can't keep my hand on it. Exhaust manifold; stone cold.

So WTF is the fan going tonto? Knacked temp. sensor, too...?

Obviously it's going in for a professional grease monkey to tamper tinker with so I'm now looking for as much info as possible, a) so I can send him in with an idea of what he's looking for to speed up the fannying about stage and b) so when he comes back and tells me what he's decided is wrong I have a good idea of whether I'm being BS'd for a bit of profiteering/he doesn't really know what he's doing (see earlier comments on Renault dealers I have known).

Am I knacking it driving it when it sounds like a broken tractor? Luckily I don't need to drive it again until it's time to take it to Howards - but that's on the other side of town from me.
 

NSP

LE
Note that it's the misfire that is detected, not the cause. After checking the spark plugs and coil packs for defects, tracking marks etc, you could swap two coil packs over and driving it until it faults, if the DTC has moved to another cylinder, then it's likely to be the coil pack or wiring to it, if it's still the same DTC, time to look for other causes.
Thanks for all your input so far. I'm going to take a wild guess that the coil packs are on top of the plugs? And they just pull off or unclip? I'll see if I can get an incremented code in the morning by swapping over (I've realised that I need to unplug the leads so the same lead goes to the same cylinder already!).

Obviously the last time I poked around an engine in all seriousness is was analogue and had a coil, distributor and HT leads as one might traditionally know them. Once I become well-heeled enough to treat myself to brand new stuff I had major skill-fade as if I touched it in the first three years I voided the warranty so it was annual dealer service and then annual DS and MoT until I swapped out the Clio for the 208. First time since I passed my test I've had a problem vehicle, so...

Also, don't s'pose anyone knows which way the cylinders are numbered. My 'Fu is letting down again. If I'm stood at the front looking at the engine (so the front-right wheel is on my left), is C1 on the left or the right of the block?
 
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