Exactly. So what's the point picking up the litter, then crapping in the water?
PETITION TO REDUCE ROADSIDE LITTER - WORTH A LOOK
- Thread starter chimera
- Start date
Surely you do not expect schoolchildren to clean up after themselves, do you?
Surely you are assuming Mcdonald's is responsible for all, and in doing so people like to eat food cold and miles from where they purchased it?
Tax fast food and employ the unemployed and homeless to clean it all up. Or start a chain gang and have criminals do the work!
XPara Mugg
War Hero
I hate litter and the damage it does to the environment and wildlife. I don't do it. I reduce the amount of packaging I receive when I shop, recycle where I can and use appropriate bins where I can't. I put my attitude down to the influence of my family. Another strong influence, strange to say, was the regular input from leaders in the Boys' Brigade and Army Cadets. It ranged from 'Good people don't do that' to 'The Japs could track you for miles from just one chewing gum wrapper'. Whatever, it worked. Formal EDUCATION just doesn't.
I've been a teacher right across the range from private, fee paying schools to the real bottom end and residential, behavioural, 'placements of last resort' and it's often the sh*ttiest little sh*t that you get through to best. No-one cares about them and they have no 'agency' in life. Show them that you really care and that they can actually make a difference and they might come on side. I've seen it happen and it's one of the few 'wins' in some schools. At the other end is the 'someone else is paid to clear it up' attitude. Maybe that's the explanation for the 'middle class' (everyone's middle class now) mess left at festivals. After all they've paid.
As a supply teacher one of my 'emergency lessons' was about littering. Teaching materials at different levels for different ages straight out of the bag. I saw lots of different attitudes to littering. Thoughtless I could cope with, that might just need raising awareness. Casual bad habits was where education might cut through by showing the negative outcomes. It was that, 'not my job' attitude that I found difficult to accept calmly. The arrogance of those who said 'someone is paid to clear it up' through to those who seemed to genuinely think they were creating a job for someone else.
I don't have a suggested solution for society in general. Schools and the military are closed environments where measures might work. Shaming is the only thing I can think of. I have often picked up and handed back dropped litter with a smile and 'Oh dear. you seem to have dropped this'. Once I returned the same wrapper to a fat Weeble woman three times before she got the hint. No doubt she dropped it as soon as she was round the corner but her kids were embarrassed on her behalf. From then on she scowled at me whenever we passed in the village, but the kids smiled and were pleasant. Perhaps it takes a generation.
In slow moving traffic, in the Whitechapel Road, heading towards the city, the driver's door of the car in front opened and an ashtray was emptied. I must have been in a bad mood because I got out, tapped on the window and, as he opened the window, I scoop up the butts, wrappers and gum and dropped it in his lap. This time, 'you dropped this' was accompanied by a scowl of my own. I must admit, I did wonder if he'd get out and take the matter up, but he didn't. Maybe he got the hint.
I can be a sh*t too. But a sh*t that doesn't like littering.
I've been a teacher right across the range from private, fee paying schools to the real bottom end and residential, behavioural, 'placements of last resort' and it's often the sh*ttiest little sh*t that you get through to best. No-one cares about them and they have no 'agency' in life. Show them that you really care and that they can actually make a difference and they might come on side. I've seen it happen and it's one of the few 'wins' in some schools. At the other end is the 'someone else is paid to clear it up' attitude. Maybe that's the explanation for the 'middle class' (everyone's middle class now) mess left at festivals. After all they've paid.
As a supply teacher one of my 'emergency lessons' was about littering. Teaching materials at different levels for different ages straight out of the bag. I saw lots of different attitudes to littering. Thoughtless I could cope with, that might just need raising awareness. Casual bad habits was where education might cut through by showing the negative outcomes. It was that, 'not my job' attitude that I found difficult to accept calmly. The arrogance of those who said 'someone is paid to clear it up' through to those who seemed to genuinely think they were creating a job for someone else.
Crisps and a Red Bull on the way too school (even if you've had breakfast) makes you one of the cool kids. After all, you can afford it and conspicuous consumption shows you aren't 'pikey' (ironic eh?). Bag and can in the hedge shows you can't be made to do what you don't want to. The fault lies with a national, cultural attitude and, of course, lifestyle advertising.
'I've paid' and 'sticking it to the man' both play a part but mostly it's peer pressure. I've seen people trashing and leaving £300 expedition tents so they can be like the 'cool kids' leaving their £30 Asda 'festival kits'. Peer pressure is stronger than pretty much any financial penalty. I've politely challenged twenty somethings leaving their trashed tent, sleeping bags etc. surrounded by sh*te, and got the reply 'But they go to charity, don't they'. Mixed messages and attitude again.
Some schools are litter free, most aren't. If it isn't inside the schoolgrounds it will be outside. Punishment litter picking is mostly counter productive. The picker sees themselves as a victim, so goes on to spread litter as an act of rebellion or to rebalance their world. As a Head, I stopped that in my schools and (along with a lot of input) the level of littering went down. Volunteer litter pickers are a different matter but even then the 'swats pick litter' effect had to be managed. Did 'area cleaning' ever stop the smokers throwing cigarette butts in the gravel or grass round the accommodation, or was it vigilance, peer pressure and bins?
I don't have a suggested solution for society in general. Schools and the military are closed environments where measures might work. Shaming is the only thing I can think of. I have often picked up and handed back dropped litter with a smile and 'Oh dear. you seem to have dropped this'. Once I returned the same wrapper to a fat Weeble woman three times before she got the hint. No doubt she dropped it as soon as she was round the corner but her kids were embarrassed on her behalf. From then on she scowled at me whenever we passed in the village, but the kids smiled and were pleasant. Perhaps it takes a generation.
In slow moving traffic, in the Whitechapel Road, heading towards the city, the driver's door of the car in front opened and an ashtray was emptied. I must have been in a bad mood because I got out, tapped on the window and, as he opened the window, I scoop up the butts, wrappers and gum and dropped it in his lap. This time, 'you dropped this' was accompanied by a scowl of my own. I must admit, I did wonder if he'd get out and take the matter up, but he didn't. Maybe he got the hint.
I can be a sh*t too. But a sh*t that doesn't like littering.
Nimbus
LE
Mmmm... fecal coliform bacteria, garnished with giardia... turns anyone into Usain Bolt.
A signaller
LE
Original post now amended.
Petition signed - most useful thing I've done today.
A signaller
LE
What he said. its done.
This.
What do they actually , really do to pay for their transgression ?
Does Community Service orders really mean anything ?
I think it is bollocks but would love to be proven wrong.
I am guessing by ' and it seems to work' you mean the Council comes round and clears the mess up at your expense ' ?
As opposed to - the Council comes round, searches the dumped rubbish for positive ID on who, when etc . Then follows it up by getting Police involved, raiding perps accom at 2.30 am. Securing arrests and either getting them sent down for 5 years or fucked off back to wherever they came from ?
That kind of 'seems to work' ?
Issi
LE
Further to the above.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘at your expense’, I guess you mean that it’s my council tax paying for it.
1. I’ve reported a blighted lay by that was full of rubbish, it was cleared up a few days later, whether because of my email or as part of a routine clean up I’ll never know.
2. I recently reported fly tipping, essentially people lobbing things over a fence onto common land. I had an email from the council stating that they were passing this onto their fly tipping enforcement team, who would seek to prosecute if they could prove the identity of the tippers.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘at your expense’, I guess you mean that it’s my council tax paying for it.
1. I’ve reported a blighted lay by that was full of rubbish, it was cleared up a few days later, whether because of my email or as part of a routine clean up I’ll never know.
2. I recently reported fly tipping, essentially people lobbing things over a fence onto common land. I had an email from the council stating that they were passing this onto their fly tipping enforcement team, who would seek to prosecute if they could prove the identity of the tippers.
Mech_Eng
ADC
I've not read the whole thread so shoot me at dawn if already mentioned.
I agree this is a good idea, but if implemented, and I was was of the type to chuck my waste out of the window I would simply remove that bit with the reg number before doing so.
I agree this is a problem as I see all sorts of fast food detritus at the road side on my way to work everyday.
I agree this is a good idea, but if implemented, and I was was of the type to chuck my waste out of the window I would simply remove that bit with the reg number before doing so.
I agree this is a problem as I see all sorts of fast food detritus at the road side on my way to work everyday.
Yup - paid for by the Council ( your Council Tax ) and more work for their 'fly-tipping' enforcement Team ( paid for by more Tax )
Have the fly tipping Enforcement Team had much success ?
slipperman
GCM
Not really. But, whilst parts of this beautiful Country is starting to resemble some of worst 3rd World shitholes and the mountains of litter grow bigger by the day, our wonderful Council ‘Executives’ are doing very well indeed.
Hundreds of council employees paid six-figure salaries as council tax bills increase
Polling carried out for the Taxpayers' Alliance found most voters would support a freeze in salaries for senior council staff
www.google.co.uk
Not really. But, whilst parts of this beautiful Country is starting to resemble some of worst 3rd World shitholes and the mountains of litter grow bigger by the day, our wonderful Council ‘Executives’ are doing very well indeed.
Hundreds of council employees paid six-figure salaries as council tax bills increase
Polling carried out for the Taxpayers' Alliance found most voters would support a freeze in salaries for senior council staff
It really is quite ugly.
I have no problems at all with people earning a high salary if they deserve it.
We live with the legacy of 40+ years of Lefty - now champagne Socialists - dominating or massively influencing local councils.
Bastards
slipperman
GCM
Not just Socialists. Tory Council leaders are equally adept at ripping us Tax payers off!
Yup - Tories as well.
I saw Kier Starmer on the post that led to this point/divergence/ arrse rant and automatically assumed it was about Socialists corruption as they are uncomfortable if they are more than 5 minutes walk from a brand Coffee Emporium or ever smell a cow shit.
lokiuk
LE
Are they the enforcement equivalent of Border Force do they provide transport to pikeys to take them to their favourite fly tipping locations?
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