Petition For a Royal Commission into Policing

#43
Good luck with all that, mate. I know a couple of Police Scotland coppers, and their moral is not at rock bottom. You'd have to dig through the fifty foot of crap beneath Rock Bottom before you reached their level of moral.

A single national force is a nice idea in theory. In reality, Police Scotland have been so badly set up and commanded from day one, they make the Met look good.

Not for nothing are Scottish polis referred to as the, "Keystone Kilts" by members of the public.
They were fantastic when they were L&B, Strathclyde etc and I got the impression moral wasn’t bad. This is 15 years ago though.
 
#44
The rank and file sold off their right to strike (and are therefore toothless) and will just do as the policy makers tell them. Raise more revenue.
Factually incorrect, the police right to industrial action was withdrawn by legislation after the Police Strikes of 1918 and 1919.

The Police Act 1919 withdrew the police right to industrial action, and brought into action the Police Federation.

This lack of industrial rights was confirmed in the Police Act of 1996.

It is this act which includes a section I brought to attention on another thread,

Any person who causes, or attempts to cause, or does any act calculated to cause, disaffection amongst the members of any police force, or induces or attempts to induce, or does any act calculated to induce, any member of a police force to withhold his services, shall be guilty of an offence and liable [to conviction]

S91 Police Act s1996
Therefore if police were to voluntarily hand in driving permits, public order duties, firearms, etc there is a school of thought that would constitute an offence.

Mrs May made it clear, in advance of the ballot in 2013, that even if police voted for the right to industrial action she would not grant it.

Police fail to vote for right to strike
 
#45
They were fantastic when they were L&B, Strathclyde etc and I got the impression moral wasn’t bad. This is 15 years ago though.
Police mergers are IMHO, the future. Unfortunately they will not be perfect immediately but will take time to bed in and for problems to be ironed out. We should be looking decades into the future, not the next few years.

I think that the merger in Scotland has probably been hampered by politicians playing games in The Scottish Parliament for personal gain.
 
#46
A few less chiefs and many more Indians required.
 
#47
We need to be thinking about long term fixes based on evidence and not short term political voting cycle initiatives that suit PCC/Home Secretaries.
 
#49
They were fantastic when they were L&B, Strathclyde etc and I got the impression moral wasn’t bad. This is 15 years ago though.
Yep, I would agree, however the creation of the Greater Strathclyde Police Force... sorry "Police Scotland" has IMHO been a disaster. What works in Glasgow does not work in Inverness or Aberdeen, and the police are demonstrably incapable of organising anything bigger than a piss up in a medium sized brewery..

Large, integrated Police forces do not work.. they suffer from Hierarchical corruption and Pareto failure. Policing is essentially a localised activity with a bit of coordination at the higher levels.. as soon as you start creating regional and national organisations, they become corrupted by political interference and game playing. Any activity much above that found in a local Police station seems to lack any form of strategic reality or practical sense. The inability of the Police to prioritise and recognise key issues such as manning, career planning and infrastructure over short term, politically motivated and frequently practically impossible goals is frankly deeply worrying..

The other side of the model that is causing huge issues for practical policing is the influence of the judiciary who have had an overweening power over police procedure for far too long. The majority of the bureaucratic load placed on the police has been at the demand of the court system, either by direction or as a result of throwing out prosecutions on technicalities. We need to see a more balanced and pragmatic handling of what used to be known as "judges rules". Far too much game playing here by folk with vested interests..

The fallacy that "police commissioners" and other such political appointments are the route to public accountability needs to be made evident. The opposite is the reality.. the people gaining these positions are not accountable, and represent a very narrow based, politically active minority.

This, like may aspects of modern society, is going to be a really hard nut to crack.. the liberal left through their largely legal meddling has put us in a position where the Police are in a complete mess, and are almost incapable of fixing themselves, at least in the short term. They have managed to both alienate much of the population that used to support them and allowed themselves to be morphed into something that is ineffective in countering the threats that face society..

Perhaps a way forward is to start splitting up the functions within the Police force, and then sorting out the "who does what and why" elements after this has been done..?

As a starter for ten, what about the following?:

1. Transport Police could be hived off and given control of all traffic issues including parking and speed monitoring. The key element of this would be to maintain an operational transport infrastructure and separate the income stream from speeding and parking revenues away from money earning schemes.

2. District policing be based on locally structured police stations of roughly 50 officers. Modern information technology could enable the management of a dispersed command structure based on local cooperation without the need for "Battle of Britain" type operations rooms which IMHO seem to have degenerated into corporate jewellery...!

3. Organised crime units to be remarshalled under a national intelligence/FBI type of organisation.

etc....

We need to extract ourselves from the position where the Police are seen as the only agency to enforce law and order. Historically this is a new departure, as the police never used to have any more power than the average citizen. Over recent decades, the Police have been going into areas where they have never been before and claiming exclusive rights to operate.. this is new, and potentially very dangerous. Every citizen has the right and obligation to support and enforce the law, and the Police must not be allowed to overrule this. Far too often, the Police see themselves as having exclusive rights to operate in this area, and citizens are allowed to abdicate their responsibilities to uphold the law. How on earth did we get to the point where Police were brought into a school to deal with a playground fight?
 
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#50
The rank and file sold off their right to strike (and are therefore toothless) and will just do as the policy makers tell them. Raise more revenue.
Factually incorrect, the police right to industrial action was withdrawn by legislation after the Police Strikes of 1918 and 1919.

The Police Act 1919 withdrew the police right to industrial action, and brought into action the Police Federation.

This lack of industrial rights was confirmed in the Police Act of 1996.

It is this act which includes a section I brought to attention on another thread,

Any person who causes, or attempts to cause, or does any act calculated to cause, disaffection amongst the members of any police force, or induces or attempts to induce, or does any act calculated to induce, any member of a police force to withhold his services, shall be guilty of an offence and liable [to conviction]

S91 Police Act s1996
Therefore if police were to voluntarily hand in driving permits, public order duties, firearms, etc there is a school of thought that would constitute an offence.

Mrs May made it clear, in advance of the ballot in 2013, that even if police voted for the right to industrial action she would not grant it.

Police fail to vote for right to strike
 
#51
Whilst an independent Royal Commissioner may be neccessary, it is unlikley to be permissable for political reasons.

I mean, what Commission is going to report systemic failings which may have occured in part under the current Prime Minister?

How about we just muddle through until the wheels come off properly?
 
#54
Good luck with all that, mate. I know a couple of Police Scotland coppers, and their moral is not at rock bottom. You'd have to dig through the fifty foot of crap beneath Rock Bottom before you reached their level of moral.
.
If it is as you say, perhaps a police career is not for them.

on a separate note, how is their morale?




ah, my coat, how kind.
 
#56
Done!
 
#58
They were fantastic when they were L&B, Strathclyde etc and I got the impression moral wasn’t bad. This is 15 years ago though.
L&B had a dedicated anti-burglary unit, staffed by highly experienced Detectives. They were bloody good, and had a high success rate. Within a few months of Polis Scotland being set up, the unit had been closed down, and the Detectives reassigned to other duties. To the surprise of no one except senior ranks and politicians, recorded burglaries rapidly increased, while conviction rates went down.
 
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Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
#59
Today's police is different and will continue to evolve into something unrecognisable from when I joined in the mid 80's.
I have signed but I fear it's FUBAR'd and when headlines such as "police have training in banter" hit the news then I truly think it's time to call it a day and stop getting angry as it will only increase my blood pressure and shorten my retirement!
So from now on I'm having the attitude of let the bastards just get on with ruining what was once well known as the best police force in the world, one day they will regret it.
Bloody hell we can't even run a railway now as no body will admit to be in charge of changing the timetables so I don't hold out much hope for the police.
As long as they carry on paying my pension for many more years then I have no more to say.
 
#60
A few less chiefs and many more Indians required.
I am sure that Direct Entry at Inspector and Superintendent will help.

Oh, oops people who have never been indians and never wanted to be indians are now chiefs.

What could possibly go wrong.

Can't wait for the public meetings "Why does my end of the peace pipe burn my mouth?" says chief.

"Try turning it around, Sir...." says the last PC or DC to leave....
 

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