Permission to hold shot guns in sfa

Duncs

Crow
Hi has anyone managed to get permission to hold there guns in sfa I'm trying to go through the process now but ammey are saying that I need premission from the Co the Principal Security Advisor and approval in writing from the police before they will look at the request .
So my issues are our house is not on the camp we are on an external estate so do I need to get permission from the Co and the Principal Security Advisor also the permission in writing would be my new shotgun certificate but reading the email they are saying they will decide if I can keep the guns here or not after I have already got them registerd at the house . Has anyone done this ? And is this the process you had to follow or am I speaking to an idiot with no idea what he's doing ? Cheers for any help
 
Based on my own experience many years ago:

1. Whilst living in a quarter on the camp area my firearms had to be held in the armoury. My understanding is, and has always been, that even if you are in a military supplied house miles away from camp you are still subject to the same rules as if you were on camp.

2. I, and a few others used to sign our pistols out “long term”. The armoury staff who were open to regular bribes of Chelsea buns and doughnuts would tell any orderly officer that my pistols were out as I was at a competition, or shooting on any given day.

3. As soon as I had my own house I had a police inspection, new address on the FAC and everything was at my place.

I am pretty sure that district standing orders used to be the go to reference.
 
Hi has anyone managed to get permission to hold there guns in sfa I'm trying to go through the process now but ammey are saying that I need premission from the Co the Principal Security Advisor and approval in writing from the police before they will look at the request .
So my issues are our house is not on the camp we are on an external estate so do I need to get permission from the Co and the Principal Security Advisor also the permission in writing would be my new shotgun certificate but reading the email they are saying they will decide if I can keep the guns here or not after I have already got them registerd at the house . Has anyone done this ? And is this the process you had to follow or am I speaking to an idiot with no idea what he's doing ? Cheers for any help

As long as your SFA is "outside the wire" then all you need is permission to fix mounting bolts to the building structure. Usually agreed (with the building owner) on the understanding that you return the building back to the way it was beforehand (fill in the holes and give the area a coat of magnolia paint).

There is no requirement to have the COs, Security Advisor's or building owner's permission to store guns and ammo. Actually, there is no need for them to even know what you are installing. When I've been asked, I just simply say "a safe". It is purely a civil matter, and the security arrangements are between you and the police.

This does not apply if the SFA or SLA is "behind the wire" (on camp). Regulation state that when not in use all arms and ammunition must be stored in the unit armoury / magazine respectively (JSP 440 applies). Although there are dispensations that can be applied.
 
If you’re kit is in the armoury most will dismiss it as “that belongs to so and so, nothing to do with us” and most will just ignore it. Keep it in lock boxes because it only takes one tw@ who things he’s an experienced firearms expert to bugger up your shiny things
 
Storage of Firearms - All privately owned firearms and ammunition must be covered by a valid Firearms or Shotgun Certificate. Occupants of SFA are to store privately owned firearms in approved Service Armouries where possible. Where this is not possible, the storage of firearms and ammunition is permitted in SFA with prior written consent of the HIC/Housing Provider and in accordance with Part 7, Section 7, Chapter 3 of JSP 440



Although I wouldn't know how many people kept firearms in SFA, lots of pads kept them in the armoury.
 
Storage of Firearms - All privately owned firearms and ammunition must be covered by a valid Firearms or Shotgun Certificate. Occupants of SFA are to store privately owned firearms in approved Service Armouries where possible. Where this is not possible, the storage of firearms and ammunition is permitted in SFA with prior written consent of the HIC/Housing Provider and in accordance with Part 7, Section 7, Chapter 3 of JSP 440



Although I wouldn't know how many people kept firearms in SFA, lots of pads kept them in the armoury.
The above applies to SFA on camps not those off it.
 
Where does say there is a difference in the link?
You do realise that the link is massively out of date and misquotes the JSP? Part 7 of JSP 440 is about foreign travel!

However JSP 440 Part 2 Leaflet 5:

"Privately-Owned Firearms/Ammunition on MOD Property

62. All privately-owned firearms, including shotguns and ammunition must be the subject of a valid firearms certificate and stored, under the relevant regulations for, and in an approved Service armoury or licensed explosive storehouse as appropriate. Additional guidance for the storage of privately-owned firearms in SFA can be found in JSP 464, Tri-Service Accommodation Regulations, Volume 1, Part 1, Chapter 6, Section 1, Para 0607.

63. If there is no Service armoury available or where individuals whose full-time occupation requires them daily access to privately-owned firearms and ammunition, consideration will be made, on a case-by-case basis, for the owner to store their firearm(s) and ammunition in SFA, provided that the following procedures are strictly adhered to:

a. Authority must be obtained from the HoE where the arms/ammunition are to be stored and relevant PSyA, who may impose further limitations.

b. The local Police Force must be consulted, under the terms of the Firearms Act 1968. Approval for the storage, and any security conditions that they may impose, must be obtained in writing, and such conditions must be complied with.

c. A valid firearms or shotgun certificate is held.

d. Establishments/Units owning full/small bore rifles or pistols for competition shooting purposes must comply with Section 11, Firearms Act 1968.

e. Privately-owned firearms and ammunition may be stored in establishment armouries and ammunition stores at the owner’s risk, but only with permission of the HoE. They are to be given the same security, including periodic checks, as Service-owned firearms and ammunition and records maintained in accordance with the Defence Logistics Framework.

f. Privately-owned arms and ammunition are only to be used by the holder of the firearms certificate to which the firearm(s)/ammunition relate.

64. Long-Term Safe Custody. Personnel living in privately-owned accommodation and posted overseas may request long term safe custody of privately-owned firearms (not ammunition), at a suitable establishment subject to the terms above."


The emphasis here is the fact that is on MOD property. SFA off camp are owned by an agency not the MOD.
 
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62. All privately-owned firearms, including shotguns and ammunition must be the subject of a valid firearms certificate and stored, under the relevant regulations for, and in an approved Service armoury or licensed explosive storehouse as appropriate. Additional guidance for the storage of privately-owned firearms in SFA can be found in JSP 464, Tri-Service Accommodation Regulations, Volume 1, Part 1, Chapter 6, Section 1, Para 0607.




The emphasis here is the fact that is on MOD property. SFA off camp are owned by an agency not the MOD.
0607. Storage of privately-owned weapons in SFA. All privately-owned firearms, including shotguns and ammunition, must be the subject of a firearms (or shotgun) certificate and should normally be stored in an approved Service armoury or licensed explosive storehouse. If there is no Service armoury available or where individuals require daily access to privately-owned firearms, with the prior written consent of both the NHPHD and the Local Service Commander, consideration will be made, on a case-by-case basis, for the owner to store their firearm(s) and ammunition in SFA. Permission to store privately-owned firearms in SFA is subject to the regulations within JSP 440 Part 2 Leaflet 5 including the following specific conditions: the local Police Force must be consulted under the terms of the Firearms Act 1968; a valid firearms license or shotgun certificate must be held; privately-owned arms and ammunition are only to be used by the holder of the firearms certificate to which the firearm(s)/ammunition relate

Reading through the rest of it, it makes no distinction with regards to SFA between the MOD having houses inside the wire and the MOD having an arrangement with Annington (or anyone else)
 
0607. Storage of privately-owned weapons in SFA. All privately-owned firearms, including shotguns and ammunition, must be the subject of a firearms (or shotgun) certificate and should normally be stored in an approved Service armoury or licensed explosive storehouse. If there is no Service armoury available or where individuals require daily access to privately-owned firearms, with the prior written consent of both the NHPHD and the Local Service Commander, consideration will be made, on a case-by-case basis, for the owner to store their firearm(s) and ammunition in SFA. Permission to store privately-owned firearms in SFA is subject to the regulations within JSP 440 Part 2 Leaflet 5 including the following specific conditions: the local Police Force must be consulted under the terms of the Firearms Act 1968; a valid firearms license or shotgun certificate must be held; privately-owned arms and ammunition are only to be used by the holder of the firearms certificate to which the firearm(s)/ammunition relate

Reading through the rest of it, it makes no distinction with regards to SFA between the MOD having houses inside the wire and the MOD having an arrangement with Annington (or anyone else)
The above is still referring to the JSP 440 and in particular "On MOD Property". Having done this for over 20 years and had it challenged a number of times, it has always come out the same: inside the wire MOD property, outside the property not MOD property.
 
The above is still referring to the JSP 440 and in particular "On MOD Property". Having done this for over 20 years and had it challenged a number of times, it has always come out the same: inside the wire MOD property, outside the property not MOD property.
The MOD seem to think all SFA is theirs

Although I did snigger at this bit "high quality subsidised accommodation"

It doesnt bother me either way as Im not in the Army, I dont have a quarter or a legal firearm. However Id be wary if I was a serving and reading this thread whether or not regulations apply to SFA outside of the camp gates.
 

RE-DSO

Old-Salt
Taking this a bit further then. I'm not serving anymore but I do have a SGC. So whilst I was serving I wanted to go shooting on a Sunday at the local shooting club. Do I book the armourer for Sun morning to draw my weapon, or do I draw it on the Fri and hide it under my bed. Cos no one will look there?
It doesn't seem to be a joined up way of thinking about this.
My opinion would be to fit a gunsafe at your off camp SFA and deal with it as any other letting. If I was in rented accomodation now, I wouldn't be asking to owners permission to have a cabinet fitted. They have no business knowing what I have in my home
 
This does not apply if the SFA or SLA is "behind the wire" (on camp). Regulation state that when not in use all arms and ammunition must be stored in the unit armoury / magazine respectively (JSP 440 applies). Although there are dispensations that can be applied.
Then the nasty little ATO refuses to allow private ammo on the Explosive Licence :-D
 
The above is still referring to the JSP 440 and in particular "On MOD Property". Having done this for over 20 years and had it challenged a number of times, it has always come out the same: inside the wire MOD property, outside the property not MOD property.
What about Garrison areas?
 
Taking this a bit further then. I'm not serving anymore but I do have a SGC. So whilst I was serving I wanted to go shooting on a Sunday at the local shooting club. Do I book the armourer for Sun morning to draw my weapon, or do I draw it on the Fri and hide it under my bed. Cos no one will look there?
It doesn't seem to be a joined up way of thinking about this.
My opinion would be to fit a gunsafe at your off camp SFA and deal with it as any other letting. If I was in rented accomodation now, I wouldn't be asking to owners permission to have a cabinet fitted. They have no business knowing what I have in my home
Theres quite a few things the MOD stops it's soldiers doing in SFA. It's something soldiers have to put up with if they want to live there.
 
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As long as your SFA is "outside the wire" then all you need is permission to fix mounting bolts to the building structure. Usually agreed (with the building owner) on the understanding that you return the building back to the way it was beforehand (fill in the holes and give the area a coat of magnolia paint).

There is no requirement to have the COs, Security Advisor's or building owner's permission to store guns and ammo. Actually, there is no need for them to even know what you are installing. When I've been asked, I just simply say "a safe". It is purely a civil matter, and the security arrangements are between you and the police.

This does not apply if the SFA or SLA is "behind the wire" (on camp). Regulation state that when not in use all arms and ammunition must be stored in the unit armoury / magazine respectively (JSP 440 applies). Although there are dispensations that can be applied.

This.

I was firearms licensing, had a couple of Army and Crab cert. holders on my patch. Back a while but i don't think much has changed.
 

RE-DSO

Old-Salt
Theres quite a few things the MOD stops it's soldiers doing in SFA. It's something soldiers have to put with if they want to live there.
I never ran into many issues when I had an SFA but shotgun security isn't given much thought here though. I wouldn't want my gun left out for a weekend. It just wouldnt feel right
 
I'd be inclined to take this up with the legal department at BASC .
Civilians don't have to get employers permission to keep shotguns , nor do they need their landlords' permission , other than to make the holes required to secure the cabinet , and you are renting off a private firm , after all .
 
I'd be inclined to take this up with the legal department at BASC .
Civilians don't have to get employers permission to keep shotguns , nor do they need their landlords' permission , other than to make the holes required to secure the cabinet , and you are renting off a private firm , after all .
Civilians don't have several restrictions that the military do.
 

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