Performance Related Pay- Nonsense or Good Management?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Boumer, May 1, 2012.

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  1. Just noticed that there is a proposal for teachers to be subject to "performance related pay", which did note.

    Pay teachers according to performance, MPs propose | Education | The Guardian

    I'm a bit curious about this, as didn't we have a bit of a outcry about teachers coaching pupils to pass exams with insider knowledge of the papers recently? I mean, if my pay is dependent upon getting as many pupils A-C grades at GCSE as possible, there's a perverse incentive there; isn't there!

    I'm curious how performance related pay can work in the public sector. I mean, no one would want the police to be paid on tickets given out, nurses on how many patients they heal or firemen on how swiftly they put out a blaze? They're supposed to do that anyway.

    Maybe this sort of thing works in private sector, I don't know. I'm just curious if people have cunning plans as to how it could work in the public sector. Job-related qualifications held? That sort of thing?

    (Of course, being suspicious by nature if this is so good an idea....why is it not applied to Parliament? Or is their's the only public sector job one cannot quantify and so subject to this sort of regime?)
  2. BrunoNoMedals

    BrunoNoMedals LE Reviewer

    Firstly, if your performance indicator is grades I can't help but think there's still the underlying assumption that, with the right teachers, every child can get an A. That's not the point of a grading system - there must always be failures, else the successes lose their worth. Secondly, performance related pay in the Civil Service gets shouted down as "bonuses" by the media until our weak politicians agree and chop salaries by 10% on a whim. It only works if the government have the balls to stand by the assumptions, particularly five years down the line when the less intelligent have forgotten and want another excuse to be outraged.
  3. I'm sure a massive amount of people could debate this and cost more money than any savings. It would of course be performance related pay set by people who don't know what performance is needed.
    If for example I took my job all the evidence would suggest that heroin users do better on long term maintenance prescribing, the current govt wants people out of treatment and you'll get a payment 12 months after they are out of the door. If I continue as I am now i'd get the lowest pay but the best long term results. The drug services who kick people out of the door await a 12 month payment will have loads of people committing crime, bothering the Police and the Hospital but they'd not get back in the front door.
    I know it's not related to teaching but an example of how these sorts of systems for pay will be messed around with.
    The other thing the govt is talking about is locally negotiated pay, well they won't give the public sector any pay rises anyway, so where's the money going to come from? I negotiated pay locally last time, the PCT's had 3% to pay the staff but 1% of that was to be negotiated locally, so we got 3%. Total waste of hundreds of union reps and HR people throughout the country. The union reps got paid time off to be trained to negotiate pay and sit in endless meeting to thrash out the 1% on top of the other 2%. It's no wonder it didn't work and i'm sure it's the erason pay review bodies were set up in the first place.
    I know of one trust who negotiated all the enhanced payments for secure units so the staff that worked in the most dangerous jobs lost money but the staff in the easier jobs saw a tiny increase in pay, the trust presumably pocketted the rest.
  4. When I worked for the govt PRP was used as a way to give higher pay rises whilst keeping within allowable percentages; annual pay rise 2%, but with PRP it could be 5-7%. The relevent minister can claim pay rises are at 2%, the unions are happy because they get what they want. PRP was a bit like the 'skill' questions to get round competition rules.

    As far as teachers go, I would agree that the result would be to coach kids to pass exams. Strangely enough, most parents seem to know who the good teachers and who the shite ones are. Maybe if they had a say in pay awards? It would certainly concentrate the minds of the staff.
  5. the targets need to be set by someobody whose inteligent and actually knows what it is they want to encourage.
    performance related pay for salesmen good sell x amount get more.
    when it gets more complex its much harder and as the NHS proved and investment bankers hitting targets may not be a good long term thing.
    People wil hit the targets you set but you may not like the way they go about hitting them.
  6. If I was on performance related pay I would work an awful lot harder - for example I would not be sat on ARRSE right now, I would find some work to do instead
  7. Will the performance indicators be grades in deprived areas with poor levels of numeracy and literacy? Will Teachers just walk out and only teach in good schools and leave the really terrible teachers in the worst schools on just a bare minimum pay?
  8. Will the performance related pay be pensionable?
  9. Seeing as how the private sector has mostly abandoned it (except for a few niche areas like sales & piece work where it does seem to work) its about time the public sector wholeheartedly adopted it
  10. Reminds me of getting a strapping when I was at school over 30 years ago. We were discussing the subject of how to measure and incentivise performance, when I had the termerity to ask the teacher how his performance was measured. He replied it was obvious by the grades of the pupils. I said that just indicated results, not performance. Results would be skewed by the fact he was teaching in a grammar school, recently turned private, and the pupils were a mix of those that had passed the 11 plus and those who parents had paid for private tuition to get them in there anyway. I wanted to know how his performance rather than results could be compared against the teachers in the local comp down the road.

    Cue one angry, red faced teacher, and me getting 6 on each hand.

    Since then I've worked in a PRP environment all my life and been on the receiving end of ludicrous targets and learnt from the experience to allow me to set realistic targets as I became a manager, but I still remember that good results dont always indicate good performance, you need to look deeper.
  11. Wordsmith

    Wordsmith LE Book Reviewer

    As with any other system in businesses, performance related pay works as well as the system that has been set up and the people running the system will allow. A good system will reward the deserving. a bad system will be a nonsense with everyone getting the same performance related pay.

    The best way of running a performance related pay system is to devolve it as far as possible - centrally administered schemes simply become mired in bureaucracy. So - in the case of schools - give the power to the head teachers. But also put in place a set of guidelines that stops the head teacher playing favourites of evenly spreading the bonuses. Also have a right of appeal to hold head teachers who abuse their position to account.

    Simple to describe - but very difficult to run efficiently in practice.

    In the organisation I work for, bonus pools are cascaded downwards:

    - The business division gets a bonus pot: the big boss splits it between major departments - not necessarily equally.
    - The departmental head splits up his part of the pot between individual managers - again not always equally.
    - The managers split up the their part of the pot between individual workers as they see fit.

    It might not be elegant, but it does result in better performing individuals getting a bigger share of the bonus pot than those who don't perform.

  12. Won't somebody please think of the ofsted!