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people fought and died so that I could...........

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Examples?
Well, what do you need? We've had examples in court where the Victim Personal Statement hasn't been read out lest it upset the guilty. The whole point of a VPS is to give vent to how the aggrieved feel/s. So some scrote feels bad because s/he has done something which has affected someone deeply? Why the hell should they be shielded from that?

In terms of opinions, in the final analysis it's okay to think whatever you want to. You can be sexist, racist, homophobic - you name it. Okay in the sense that in the final analysis you can't stop people's thoughts or opinions. It's whether they act upon them that then becomes an offence.
 

Yokel

LE
Greta thunberg has a lot to answer for.

Has she? How? Surely her message is that the individual can make a difference, and that we all make decisions that impact society and the entire World? We can all make choices like driving less, being sensible when buying food that has been transported half way across the World, not wasting heat...and all these things save you money.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Has she? How? Surely her message is that the individual can make a difference, and that we all make decisions that impact society and the entire World? We can all make choices like driving less, being sensible when buying food that has been transported half way across the World, not wasting heat...and all these things save you money.
Reported for mentioning Brexit.
 
There's too much about "rights" and not enough about the personal responsibilities that go hand in hand with "freedom".

Phone conversation I had the other day (and several other days too)

On 999...

"Riiight worrit iz yeah...(That's the combat indicator for a 'chav call'...Me ex's been callin' me an unfit mutha 'n its all over Facebook...I wannim done"

"So what has he posted?"

"Ee's said me son Kayden had bruises on iz arm last time ee 'ad im 'n Kayden said Kev - me new partner did it..and..me ex's new partner - she's a riiight slag...said I want reporting...and I'm not 'avin it"

"And now she's messaged me threatenin to hit me if she sees me at bingo - it's all over't co-op yer know...well I'm not 'avin it and a bloody told her and..."

"Why don't you just block her on Facebook?"

"Why the feck should a? That means they've won and I'm not bloody avin it"

"Well stop engaging with her on facebook...just don't reply...and don't threaten her back!"

"A yoo bloody listenin t'me? I'ts my facebook an I'm not avin the likes of her forcing me to block her and..if she's got anything to say she can bloody say it to ma face and see what 'appens...and I've bloody told her that too!" "And i've got mental elf yer know...its me anxiety (That's the new PTSD)"


About 10 seconds into the call I put her name and date of birth into the system and see...she's a MARAC victim to all 15 of her last partners the past 2 years, Safeguarding have played a major part in her life since all 4 of her kids were born, and public order / assault charges seem to be her specialist subject. Meanwhile - she'll be showing as 'aggrieved' party in multiple harassment allegations that got filed on first submission.


Next call typically will be an 84 year old woman who's been waiting on 101 for 6 minutes reporting there's a bloke with a torch in her back garden and she's scared...didn't want to phone 999 though as didn't want to be a trouble - in case there were any 'real emergencies'.

I'm not exaggerrating when I say that the above example is pretty typical of 90% of what I have to deal with.


Edit...and due to police having played a major part in most of her adult life and phonecalls chasing up updates on crime numbers (she never has written down)..also stars in about 5-10 999 pocket dials a week due to it being so abundant on her call history/quickdial


That's where our society is at. I can't see it changing...ever.
 

PFGEN

GCM
There's too much about "rights" and not enough about the personal responsibilities that go hand in hand with "freedom".

Lot of folks need to learn the difference between rights and privileges. A driving license is a privilege. If you drive like a complete bellend causing all sorts of grief after suspensions, arrests and fines, your privilege should be revoked. License gone for good. Same applies to passports.
 
We can all make choices like driving less, being sensible when buying food that has been transported half way across the World, not wasting heat...and all these things save you money.
Very true, but that’s our individual choice. Most adults who’ve spent their lives working for what they have aren’t particularly eager to be preached to by a child who has been want for nothing and has no practical experience in anything but being an outraged student.
 

ColdWarWorrier

Old-Salt
My Grandad, who served and fought throughout the whole of WW2 in various different locations used to get really annoyed when hearing: “people fought and died so that . . .”

He used to tell me: “ We fought for our mates, not the country. It was the country that sent us there, we were just fighting to survive long enough to go home.”

Anyone who has served will recognise this sentiment, it’s your mates that are most important, not some political ideal.
 

DTBA

War Hero
Phone conversation I had the other day (and several other days too)

On 999...

"Riiight worrit iz yeah...(That's the combat indicator for a 'chav call'...Me ex's been callin' me an unfit mutha 'n its all over Facebook...I wannim done"

"So what has he posted?"

"Ee's said me son Kayden had bruises on iz arm last time ee 'ad im 'n Kayden said Kev - me new partner did it..and..me ex's new partner - she's a riiight slag...said I want reporting...and I'm not 'avin it"

"And now she's messaged me threatenin to hit me if she sees me at bingo - it's all over't co-op yer know...well I'm not 'avin it and a bloody told her and..."

"Why don't you just block her on Facebook?"

"Why the feck should a? That means they've won and I'm not bloody avin it"

"Well stop engaging with her on facebook...just don't reply...and don't threaten her back!"

"A yoo bloody listenin t'me? I'ts my facebook an I'm not avin the likes of her forcing me to block her and..if she's got anything to say she can bloody say it to ma face and see what 'appens...and I've bloody told her that too!" "And i've got mental elf yer know...its me anxiety (That's the new PTSD)"


About 10 seconds into the call I put her name and date of birth into the system and see...she's a MARAC victim to all 15 of her last partners the past 2 years, Safeguarding have played a major part in her life since all 4 of her kids were born, and public order / assault charges seem to be her specialist subject. Meanwhile - she'll be showing as 'aggrieved' party in multiple harassment allegations that got filed on first submission.


Next call typically will be an 84 year old woman who's been waiting on 101 for 6 minutes reporting there's a bloke with a torch in her back garden and she's scared...didn't want to phone 999 though as didn't want to be a trouble - in case there were any 'real emergencies'.

I'm not exaggerrating when I say that the above example is pretty typical of 90% of what I have to deal with.


Edit...and due to police having played a major part in most of her adult life and phonecalls chasing up updates on crime numbers (she never has written down)..also stars in about 5-10 999 pocket dials a week due to it being so abundant on her call history/quickdial


That's where our society is at. I can't see it changing...ever.

It's even more fun and games when the DVPO team get precedence at court for their applications, which are promptly disregarded by all parties. Kevin is then brought in for breaching, because Chantelle saw them at Greggs together and she hates Jeanette for the time she called her a slag in Yates'. He is given more fines by the DJ, bringing his total to £3981.56. The order is then revoked anyway because Kevin's sister has got cancer and she used to be there for child contact and she can't do it any more. Rinse and repeat.

It costs thousands of pounds to keep these people alive and if the public got wind of it they'd want it all binning.
 

StBob072

LE
Book Reviewer
My Grandad, who served and fought throughout the whole of WW2 in various different locations used to get really annoyed when hearing: “people fought and died so that . . .”

He used to tell me: “ We fought for our mates, not the country. It was the country that sent us there, we were just fighting to survive long enough to go home.”

Anyone who has served will recognise this sentiment, it’s your mates that are most important, not some political ideal.

I appreciate what you're saying, particularly in recent spurious conflicts, and I'm sure there were many who felt the same as your grandfather.

That said, I wonder if later generations truly understand the threat posed by Nazi Germany in WW2.
 
I appreciate what you're saying, particularly in recent spurious conflicts, and I'm sure there were many who felt the same as your grandfather.

That said, I wonder if later generations truly understand the threat posed by Nazi Germany in WW2.

WW2. Wots that then.

In the last series of The Apprentice none of the team knew the dates of WW2. It might just as easily have been 1066 to them.
 

Yokel

LE
Very true, but that’s our individual choice. Most adults who’ve spent their lives working for what they have aren’t particularly eager to be preached to by a child who has been want for nothing and has no practical experience in anything but being an outraged student.

Yes perhaps, but since the Magna Carta the Western tradition has been to separate the worthiness of the message (is it true?) from ad hominem criticism of the messenger.

The example that @supermatelot gave is an example of the rights culture, and far more worrying.
 
It's even more fun and games when the DVPO team get precedence at court for their applications, which are promptly disregarded by all parties. Kevin is then brought in for breaching, because Chantelle saw them at Greggs together and she hates Jeanette for the time she called her a slag in Yates'. He is given more fines by the DJ, bringing his total to £3981.56. The order is then revoked anyway because Kevin's sister has got cancer and she used to be there for child contact and she can't do it any more. Rinse and repeat.

It costs thousands of pounds to keep these people alive and if the public got wind of it they'd want it all binning.

few weeks ago:
Right...me brothers just bin arrested , dunno what for...and it’s all over Facebook sayin EE’s a nonce. I’m not avin it..Ees not an I want summat done.

On entering her brothers name and DOB...he’d just been arrested for a serious sexual offence against her own daughter, reported by her daughter.

I wasn’t able to disclose that to her though.

Probably caused a slight amount of cognitive dissonance being torn between the fashionable ‘victimhood’ and ‘kill all nonces’ attitudes.
 

PFGEN

GCM
I appreciate what you're saying, particularly in recent spurious conflicts, and I'm sure there were many who felt the same as your grandfather.

That said, I wonder if later generations truly understand the threat posed by Nazi Germany in WW2.

Depressingly enough the answer would appear to be no in the majority of cases. Most know something went on and that the end is celebrated every year. For some of them that could be any war. I work with a few twenty somethings and their history education stopped short of the 20th century. Of course many do learn what happened from their parents or grandparents but they are in the minority.
 

StBob072

LE
Book Reviewer
Probably caused a slight amount of cognitive dissonance being torn between the fashionable ‘victimhood’ and ‘kill all nonces’ attitudes.

Or, if the daughter was old enough to make the report and know what she was saying, perhaps there was an element of fibbery about it? It's not unknown. :-(
 
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I appreciate what you're saying, particularly in recent spurious conflicts, and I'm sure there were many who felt the same as your grandfather.

That said, I wonder if later generations truly understand the threat posed by Nazi Germany in WW2.
Dunno if they do. Like CWW, my grandfathers fought through WW2. One of them would be irked by the title of the thread.
He was a peacetime soldier and the war gave him great opportunities. He soldiered on after the war, and mainly didn’t care too much about anything. A generally liberal, easy-going bloke in later life. Happiest watching football on the telly, in the garden or playing dominoes in the pub.
Live and let live, look after your own and do the best you can with what you have. Something to aspire to, and not bad for someone who apparently was very good at killing Germans.
 

StBob072

LE
Book Reviewer
I work with a few twenty somethings and their history education stopped short of the 20th century.


What the hell do they study then? I get that earlier centuries produced major changes, industrial revolution being one example, but surely the major conflicts of the 20th century (and more importantly the political situations that prompted/enabled them) are vital to understanding many aspects of the modern world?

Those who ignore history etc. ...
 
I appreciate what you're saying, particularly in recent spurious conflicts, and I'm sure there were many who felt the same as your grandfather.

That said, I wonder if later generations truly understand the threat posed by Nazi Germany in WW2.

They probably know Hitler more through memes, I bet they know mein campfy chair



Or disco Hitler

 
I know themes change, but wasn’t the complaint a while back that kids spent too long on WW2 and stuff?
I recall spending a bit of time on the princes in the tower saga, the idea being to teach us to look at different sources before making an opinion. Fairly good idea. My parents were sceptical, thinking we should perhaps focus on more recent events.
 

StBob072

LE
Book Reviewer
I know themes change, but wasn’t the complaint a while back that kids spent too long on WW2 and stuff?
I recall spending a bit of time on the princes in the tower saga, the idea being to teach us to look at different sources before making an opinion. Fairly good idea. My parents were sceptical, thinking we should perhaps focus on more recent events.

I'm currently doing an OU course in Arts & Humanities, and the first module focuses on "Reputations", so the Princes in the Tower would be relevant in terms of examining sources, propaganda etc., but not at the expense of other important events which are still in living memory.

Which raises another question - when did the generations grow so far apart in terms of understanding of history and what we used to call "general knowledge" ?!


(PS. I reckon Henry VII dun it ;-) )
 

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