Pentagon refocusses on Russia and China

Hereward said:
It stretches credulity to its absolute bounds to think that suddenly, overnight, all those who were Communists will suddenly adopt a new philosophy and belief, with the result that everything will be different.

Christopher Gill MP, House of Commons, 8 June 1995
Wow. I'm dazzled. Christopher Gill, eh? Well, well.

From the same man, his proudest achievement in parliament since 1997: "My battle for the retention of smaller abattoirs." Hardly a maestro of international politics.

The evidence from the Former Warsaw Pact is that former Communists quite happily embrace new philosophies and beliefs if it'll keep them in power. Since you quote Franjo Tudjman in your signature, you might like to ponder his conversion from Titoist JNA General, steeped in Brotherhood & Unity, to rabid Croat Nationalist dedicated to the wholesale destruction of all non-Croat populations within generously re-defined Croatian borders.

The 'Communists' running China are plutocrats pure and simple. This is not just my opinion but that of many (most?) of the Chinese people I meet. How else do you explain their embracing of a market base to their economy? They are not particularly dedicated to the spread of Communism, but only in maintaining their position of power in China. Geo-political maneouvrings are a means to this end and nothing else - give John Zhongguo a better standard of living and he won't try to reenact 1989 with added lessons learned.

Are they looking to become a serious, even dominant, power in the world? You betcha. Most Chinese are enthusiastic about having their country afforded superpower status, even ones who want to end to one-party rule. But that's a long way from saying their government wants to spread Maoism around the world. That would be a distraction from their main effort and we are not dealing with fools, here.
 
frenchperson said:
The whole thing's a smokescreen. Look to South America, in particular Venezuela and north to Cuba.

Castro's on the way. Chavez has oil, a democratic mandate, popular appeal and is snubbing the oil companies and spending the proceeds of the nation's wealth improving the lot of the people of Venezuela. That sort of scurrilous behaviour is an affront to capitalism - and will be seen as threatening to America's interests abroad. Expect trouble here.
With the greatest respect Frenchperson, you are talking tripe... there is huge poverty in Venzuela and Chavez has money left-over to spend on giveing cheap oil to Ken Livingstone, go figure. Charity starts at home, if Chavez was really interested in Venzuela he was would be spending his country's money and his time in Venezuela, not giveing the yanks the needle and hanging round with Mayor Newt of London!

Best and Warm Regards
Zapata
 
I do not think it advances the understanding of China to call today's Chinese Regime "Communists", I am not sure at the higher levels that Maoist China was Communist anymore than the Third Reich was either Nationalist or Socialist or National Socialist and China today is certainly not a Communist country all that said, should the West be wary of China, I would say most certainly for the reason that the Governing elite are not showing any indication that they wish to eventaully establish democratic Governance and if in the near future China's econmomy suffers a major crisis it would be very attractive for the Governing Elite to play the nationalist card to divert public attention from the economic problem and such an initaive could easily develop a momentum of its own that pushed China in to a major conflict, much in the way Europe slid in to war in 1914.

Best and Warm Regards
Zapata
 

Hereward

Old-Salt
smartascarrots said:
Hereward said:
It stretches credulity to its absolute bounds to think that suddenly, overnight, all those who were Communists will suddenly adopt a new philosophy and belief, with the result that everything will be different.

Christopher Gill MP, House of Commons, 8 June 1995
Wow. I'm dazzled. Christopher Gill, eh? Well, well.

From the same man, his proudest achievement in parliament since 1997: "My battle for the retention of smaller abattoirs." Hardly a maestro of international politics.
He is one of British conservatism's most outspoken patriots. You are attacking him, and I will therefore regard that as a suspicious reaction. You also appear to have overlooked the fact that he is now Chairman of the Freedom Association, and on the frontline in the battle to get our nation out of the latest 'Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact' known as the European Union.

smartascarrots said:
The evidence from the Former Warsaw Pact is that former Communists quite happily embrace new philosophies and beliefs if it'll keep them in power. Since you quote Franjo Tudjman in your signature, you might like to ponder his conversion from Titoist JNA General, steeped in Brotherhood & Unity, to rabid Croat Nationalist dedicated to the wholesale destruction of all non-Croat populations within generously re-defined Croatian borders.
The quote shows how the supposed "liberals" dominating Western politics can be supporters of fascism in order to acheive their political objectives. It isn't difficult for a communist to pose as a fascist, since both ideologies support a bureaucratic state tyranny and are anti-Semitic.

smartascarrots said:
The 'Communists' running China are plutocrats pure and simple. This is not just my opinion but that of many (most?) of the Chinese people I meet. How else do you explain their embracing of a market base to their economy? They are not particularly dedicated to the spread of Communism, but only in maintaining their position of power in China. Geo-political maneouvrings are a means to this end and nothing else - give John Zhongguo a better standard of living and he won't try to reenact 1989 with added lessons learned.

Are they looking to become a serious, even dominant, power in the world? You betcha. Most Chinese are enthusiastic about having their country afforded superpower status, even ones who want to end to one-party rule. But that's a long way from saying their government wants to spread Maoism around the world. That would be a distraction from their main effort and we are not dealing with fools, here.
You are clueless. Communists are all about subversion, they have subverted global capitalism in order to achieve their revolutionary objective - world government.
 
The west should be careful in dealing with China. At this point in time, our relationship with china could go either way. China has the potential to be either a competitor or a friend.

In my experience with the chinese, I believe a friendly partnership in the future with china is not out of the question. There are several chinese citizens who have had opportunities to study abroad, there are business connections between east and west, technological exchanges, etc. Also, there military could potentially work cooperatively with western militaries in Peacekeeping operations.

I know this is a Naive and Idealistic view of the future, but China is a land in transition. We need to consider how we will go about in aproaching china in the 21st century
 

Hereward

Old-Salt
Chief_Joseph said:
I know this is a Naive and Idealistic view of the future
Yes it is, and it is precisely what the likes of Henry Kissinger have wanted to you to think since the 'Nixon in China' public relations stunt in the early 1970s.
 
Hereward said:
You are attacking him, and I will therefore regard that as a suspicious reaction.
No, I'm attacking your notion that his views on international relations carry some sort of ultra-credibility. He is and always has been a small fish in a small pond, lacking experience in international matters.

Hereward said:
The quote shows how the supposed "liberals" dominating Western politics can be supporters of fascism in order to acheive their political objectives..
Eh? Which "liberals dominating Western Europe" were responsible for Tudjman's upbringing and conversion, or the other ex-Communists I referred to? Try not ot attack an argument I didn't make, it makes you sound like a politician and you know how much credibility they have on this site.

Hereward said:
[/b]You are clueless[/b]. Communists are all about subversion, they have subverted global capitalism in order to achieve their revolutionary objective - world government.
Ever been to China, Hereward? Ever experienced daily life there or been exposed to the opinions of ordinary Chinese; or the output of their news agencies? Thought not. Better to not just spout off any old sh*te, there's a good chap. If the gout's playing up, lay off the port and the Daily Mail. They'll only make you liverish.

So you regard disagreement as a "suspicious reaction", do you? A standpoint better suited to a supporter of totalitarianism, don't you think? But go ahead, it won't make the Freedom Association any less laughable.

http://www.tfa.net/
 
P.S., Hereward, Communism isn't inherently anti-Semitic, either. Look at how many leading Communists in Weimar Germany were Jewish - this was one of the facts that Nazis based their "Jewish conspiracy" rants on.

Given your unwillingness to put facts ahead of his dogma, and your kneejerk assumption of injured pride at a perceived slight on him, I wonder if you are in fact Christopher Gill himself? No longer an MP, I might add, and therefore no longer entitled to be referred to as such.

If not, I would suggest removing the blinkers and cranking up the old thinky-box. You'd be amazed how much more respect you get for your opinions if you've come up with them all by yourself.
 
The US Navy must be breaking out the champagne if that's true. Global War on Terror is all about boots on the ground or possibly bombing the odd thing so the Army and Air Force have been taking the lions share of resources. A resurgent Russia and/or a China that's trying to expand their influence means numerous new aircraft carriers, massive fleets of escort vessels and whole flotillas of shiny new attack submarines.
 

Hereward

Old-Salt
smartascarrots said:
No, I'm attacking your notion that his views on international relations carry some sort of ultra-credibility. He is and always has been a small fish in a small pond, lacking experience in international matters.
He does have credibility because he is genuine patriot who opposes our membership of the European Union.

Hereward said:
Eh? Which "liberals dominating Western Europe" were responsible for Tudjman's upbringing and conversion, or the other ex-Communists I referred to? Try not ot attack an argument I didn't make, it makes you sound like a politician and you know how much credibility they have on this site.
The EU, backed by Clinton, supported Tudjman in his war against Serbia and his ethnic cleansing of 500,000 Serbs from their communities in Croatia.

Hereward said:
Ever been to China, Hereward? Ever experienced daily life there or been exposed to the opinions of ordinary Chinese; or the output of their news agencies? Thought not. Better to not just spout off any old sh*te, there's a good chap. If the gout's playing up, lay off the port and the Daily Mail. They'll only make you liverish.

So you regard disagreement as a "suspicious reaction", do you? A standpoint better suited to a supporter of totalitarianism, don't you think? But go ahead, it won't make the Freedom Association any less laughable.

http://www.tfa.net/
You are a vile Marxist traitor. Go and sell "Socialist Worker", or whatever you people do.
 

Hereward

Old-Salt
smartascarrots said:
P.S., Hereward, Communism isn't inherently anti-Semitic, either. Look at how many leading Communists in Weimar Germany were Jewish - this was one of the facts that Nazis based their "Jewish conspiracy" rants on.
Ever heard of the 'self-hating Jew'? The Communist Jews have always wanted to destroy Israel. Nazism and Communism are two sides of the same totalitarian coin.

smartascarrots said:
Given your unwillingness to put facts ahead of his dogma, and your kneejerk assumption of injured pride at a perceived slight on him, I wonder if you are in fact Christopher Gill himself? No longer an MP, I might add, and therefore no longer entitled to be referred to as such.

If not, I would suggest removing the blinkers and cranking up the old thinky-box. You'd be amazed how much more respect you get for your opinions if you've come up with them all by yourself.
I doubt that the Chairman of the Freedom Association (which counts leading Tories, including Shadow Defence Secretary Gerald Howarth, among its ruling council members) would waste his valuable time arguing with worthless traitors on Internet forums, he has far more important things to do like running the 'Better Off Out' campaign.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
Hereward said:
smartascarrots said:
P.S., Hereward, Communism isn't inherently anti-Semitic, either. Look at how many leading Communists in Weimar Germany were Jewish - this was one of the facts that Nazis based their "Jewish conspiracy" rants on.
Ever heard of the 'self-hating Jew'? The Communist Jews have always wanted to destroy Israel. Nazism and Communism are two sides of the same totalitarian coin.
I have, even been accused of being one, my only crime having the Rothschild family marry into 'mine'. Luckily my great grandfather was rescued as he was disowned for marrying an Irish Roman Catholic :twisted:

Hereward, if you ever have time, I'd be really interested in wiring you up to an Electroencephalograph when you post. I have a feeling you could be the alternative source of power global warming scientists are looking for... ;)
 
Hereward I have to ask, is it really necessary to have a signature that long? Considering the fact that it seems to be three or four times the length of most of your posts.
 
Hereward said:
Hereward said:
Ever been to China, Hereward? Ever experienced daily life there or been exposed to the opinions of ordinary Chinese; or the output of their news agencies? Thought not. Better to not just spout off any old sh*te, there's a good chap. If the gout's playing up, lay off the port and the Daily Mail. They'll only make you liverish.

So you regard disagreement as a "suspicious reaction", do you? A standpoint better suited to a supporter of totalitarianism, don't you think? But go ahead, it won't make the Freedom Association any less laughable.

http://www.tfa.net/
You are a vile Marxist traitor. Go and sell "Socialist Worker", or whatever you people do.
You know, there's a hell of a lot more to chinese history than just communism.
 
Hereward said:
He does have credibility because he is genuine patriot who opposes our membership of the European Union.
He has no experience of politics at that level beyond what any bloke down the pub has. This does not give him or his views any additional credibility over said bloke.

Hereward said:
The EU, backed by Clinton, supported Tudjman in his war against Serbia and his ethnic cleansing of 500,000 Serbs from their communities in Croatia.
The EU did not cause Tudjman's conversion nor did it assist him in beginning his campaign. It merely stood by and let him crack on.

Hereward said:
Ever heard of the 'self-hating Jew'? The Communist Jews have always wanted to destroy Israel. Nazism and Communism are two sides of the same totalitarian coin.
Israel did not exist at the time of the Weimar Communists. Self-hating Jews or not (unprovable, by the way) they could hardly be in a position to destroy it. And it was the Nazis that killed them all, they didn't commit mass suicide. China doesn't have anti-Semitism because there aren't any Jews outside the Israeli Embassy and because very few Chinese really understand what Judaism actually is.

Hereward said:
You are a vile Marxist traitor. Go and sell "Socialist Worker", or whatever you people do.
So my 13 years with the Colours count for nothing then? Or the fact that I habitually vote the person not the party and coincidentally wound up voting Conservative more often than any other party?

You are a flaccid implement of the highest order. Go back to the BNP site where you won't find your cosy world view challenged by those who know better than you what you're talking about.
 

Hereward

Old-Salt
Chief_Joseph said:
You know, there's a hell of a lot more to chinese history than just communism.
Communists despise their own national heritage and culture.
 

Hereward

Old-Salt
smartascarrots said:
You are a flaccid implement of the highest order. Go back to the BNP site where you won't find your cosy world view challenged by those who know better than you what you're talking about.
Your posts are like a Searchlight editorial.

You are clearly not smart enough to have noticed that my posts so far have taken a decidedly anti-fascist line. Only a hate-filled Marxist would make such a lazy and inaccurate assertion about a libertarian conservative patriot who values national and individual freedom.
 

Sova-4

Swinger
frenchperson said:
The whole thing's a smokescreen. Look to South America, in particular Venezuela and north to Cuba.

Castro's on the way. Chavez has oil, a democratic mandate, popular appeal and is snubbing the oil companies and spending the proceeds of the nation's wealth improving the lot of the people of Venezuela. That sort of scurrilous behaviour is an affront to capitalism - and will be seen as threatening to America's interests abroad. Expect trouble here.
I would not be optimistic about Chavez.
He will put his country to its knees even without outside "help". All of his populist speech is short-term. He can raise populations well-being, but history always repeats itself. He is acting like any other dictator who appeared on this planet. He got a popular mandate, centered power in his hands, got rid of opposition, etc. That's what people gave away in exchange for utopia ideas of "equality" and "even distribution of wealth". At one time, after enjoying short euphoria, people will want political freedom, and he will react with repressive measures and blame it on "imperialistic pigs", etc. Then you will have another civil war, or a country in economic ruins.
 
I'd watch it if I were you 'smartascarrots'. 'Joe McCarthy' Hereward has obviously got your number, you ''suspicious'', ''vile Marxist traitor'', you...
Be prepared for a witch-hunt!
 
hansvonhealing said:
I'd watch it if I were you 'smartascarrots'. 'Joe McCarthy' Hereward has obviously got your number, you ''suspicious'', ''vile Marxist traitor'', you...
Be prepared for a witch-hunt!
Luckily, this "libertarian patriot" doesn't worry me since I have concealed a supply of oxygen where he can't find it...
 

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