Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by mushroom, Feb 9, 2005.

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  1. Finian Manson is today taking his case for a TA Pension to the High Court. I'm sure we all wish him well.
  2. Hi,
    i saw an earlier post about this but cannot find it. could you provide links to more information about this case please.
  3. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    Does anyone know what happened last Friday.. I've googled away like a mad thing and come up with SFA.
  4. Copyright 2005 The Press Association Limited
    Press Association

    February 17, 2005, Thursday


    348 words


    John Aston, PA

    A long-serving Territorial Army major who served in Bosnia today lost a High Court battle for the right to a military pension.

    Lawyers for Major Finian Manson asked a judge to rule that, although a part-time soldier, he was not "casual labour", as the Ministry of Defence contended.

    But Mr Justice Moses, sitting in London, said: "In my view the nature of the service performed by the claimant is not only part-time but is also casual."

    The judge rejected arguments that, under EU law, he should be treated "no less favourably" than full-time members of the armed forces who did have pension rights.

    Ms Philippa Watson, appearing for Major Manson, 54, said he was entitled to equality of treatment with respect to pay and conditions under the Part-time Workers Directive.

    The judge rejected the submissions, saying the pattern of work of TA volunteers was "occasional and random" and there were wide fluctuations in the amount of training they undertook.

    Some did not do the minimum number of days, but nevertheless were not subject to discipline as a result.

    A member of the TA for more than 33 years, Major Manson has been in many different TA units and served in Bosnia.

    An accountant and former company director from west London, he is currently in a specialist unit at the Royal Artillery Central Volunteer Headquarters and could go on serving up to the age of 60.

    Under his terms and conditions, Major Manson is currently committed to 15 days a year of "in camp" training and four days "out of camp".

    Ms Watson said he had completed at least 1,142 days service, which was considerably in excess of the minimum requirement.

    She submitted Major Manson was entitled to the protection of the court and to have the Directive enforced.

    The Government was not at liberty to deny him a pension on the basis that his service amounted to "casual labour".

    Rejecting her submissions, the judge also ruled the case should never have come to the court for judicial review as it raised issues of private law, not public law.

    Major Manson is considering whether to appeal.

    February 18, 2005

    Copyright © 2005 LexisNexis, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
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  5. Casual Labour??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    Sure the blokes just off january's brecon would have something to say about that. Im sure i will agree after my 2 day NBC phase in upcoming exercise.

    People just don't have a clue. They should have made the judge do CIC or something.
  6. Casual labour they are having a laugh! I don't seem to remember doing any Casual labour in Iraq ...

    On a separate point, as we do not come under the Army Pension its worth thinking about setting up your own arrangement. I have a Stakeholder pension based on my TA earnings.

    Its a cheap costed pension and a good way of squirreling away money for retirement, its worth remembering you get tax relief on your contributions.. so Gordon tops yours up a little extra.

    There is a link below re pensions that might prove helpful to anyone who is interested
  7. what the f***, next you stabs will be wanting us to respect you for your soldier like skills, stop bleating if you want to be a regualr join up and see what the real world is about, TA = Total ********* :twisted: .
  8. Striker Have you got small man syndrome or are you just a tw@t who doesn't like it when a estate agent called Colin from kettering can do your job better than you!!! :lol:
  9. Striker, I would get used to the TA.. as I suspect on your next operational tour there might be a few of us STABs keeping you company...

    there were about a 1000 of us keeping you regulars company on Telic 2, out of 10,000 ish deployed.

    Although if you do end up with a room mate who is an estate agent, don't believe a word they say.. they lie for a living!

    ..just a thought!
  10. The real world? What are you on about? Presumably not the one where there are no longer a sufficient number of you to do all the jobs Tony would like you to, that funny one the other side of the wire...

    I assume you are from that (minority) section of the Army wot didn't do that good at school, found the tests wot those blokes gave you to do down the AFCO well hard, had few career choices outside the Army and not so many within either, and ended up in one of the less intellectually demanding arms / corps.

    Take your non-sequiturs elsewhere now, there's a good boy.
  11. You obvisously have something to prove to yourselves if you cannot bite the bullet and join up, ask any regular, he would rather have a full time soldier than a stab anyday, as for not typical of regulars thinking, I,m sorry but it is. :twisted:

    TA = Total *********
  12. Sorry my mistake clicked on this because the thread was titled Pensions!!!
  13. Fantastic. Well said. The 'Total *********' would rather have the Regular Army doing their own job as well.

    So none of us will turn out in future; responses to Glasgow can simply quote you and your wish for the regular army to do it all themselves. You've no longer got the arms plot to worry about so crack on.

    As for me personally, I never wanted to go anyway, I've got plenty of better things to do. I only got roped in in the first place because I thought it was just the Cadets' equivalent of Venture Scouts... you lot can do it all, you're better than the TA and then we can get back to our own lives and the 'defence of the realm in times of grave national emergency', rather than fighting the regular army's wars for them. If I'd had anything to prove, I would have joined up, which puts a slightly different light on your career choice really.

    Anyway, I won't take any more of your time. It's almost 18 hours since your first insightful post on the thread so it must be time for you to be kissing you kids and your soon to be ex-wife goodbye for the next six months... again.

    Enjoy. :)
  14. Striker... Are you TA baiting? If you are bad boy! If not I can only hope that on your next tour you are surronded by STABS you are the stereo type of the true ARAB. While we are on the subject I'll bet you are a FLURAB as well!

    I hold this saying back for people like you

    "I can do your job! Can you do mine???? Didn't think so"

  15. Striker got to admire your balls! I can only guess that you are somewhere warm and sandy and that the sun has affected your head...

    There will be about 5000 or more of us that should become available for call up again in 2006,... so see you on the next tour, Eye Raq or Afghanistan.. look forward to it