Pensions for Part Timers??

Discussion in 'Finance, Property, Law' started by TangoZeroAlpha, Apr 6, 2003.

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  1. Part Time officers/soldiers of the R IRISH do not receive a pension when they retire. They get nothing. They are not like the TA who are exempt from the Part Time Workers legislation. The Part Time R IRISH are not exempt and are covered by the legislation. So why are PT R IRISH not given a pension when they retire? Its because MoD class them as "casual workers" now isn't that absured. There is nothing casual about living in fear in NI, checking under your car, etc etc. Oh and lets not forget about our fallen - mostly murdered off duty. But then again its only the natives killing each other...
  2. I know this is the subject of a tribunal and i don't think that they have actually given a rulling on the matter at the minute, unless you know better? There is no way that the European Court will let them get away with it, it is just a matter of time before it happens. The big question as far as i'm concerned is if it is going to be back dated, and if so how far back.
  3. Victor, you are correct - it is the subject of a Tribunal and we are getting closer to the end game of a hearing. I understand about 28 or 29 HSPT Officers/soldiers have applied to an ET. Some cases have been struck out because the MoD played the "out of time" card or "you didn't submit a Redress first" card but there are still about 15 or so cases which will go to a full hearing.
    I expect the MoD will fight it tooth and nail and cost the taxpayer a lot of money doing so. Not so the Officers/soldiers taking the cases - they are having to fund the cases themselves. You are also correct in saying, Eurpoe will not let them away with it. If it has to go to Europe then so be it.
    Fancy starting a fighting fund??
  4. As a serving member of the TA for 23 years I am very interested to know if we are any closer to a resolution on this matter, i.e. the TA getting a pension if so, when and if not, why?
  5. My understanding is that the EU PTW directive was implemented in the UK with a specific exemption for TA. ( Cheers HMG ). Thats why TA are exempt for now.
  6. I note that you have said "for now" is there something going on, a glimmer of hope for the future?? [/quote]
  7. RRTT32,

    I believe that a firm of solicitors is taking a test case on TA pensions and they put an ad in Soldier Magazine last Jun/Jul. I think I have it somewhere. If I can find it I will post the details here.
  8. I contacted the firm below and this is the reply. I have also included the questionaire at the bottom.

    Dear Mick

    Re: TA Pension Claims

    Further to your request for information on the above, this will summarise the position.

    We act on behalf of a substantial number of serving and retired members of the TA. We have spent some 2 years laying the ground work and are now in a position to press on. We are keen to increase our numbers as much as possible.

    What are the claims?

    Similar actions by others have come unstuck in the past because they have not taken the right legal approach. Even now, I believe that some people around the country are trying to run claims without proper representation.

    There are two basic pillars to our case: -

    1. Equal Pay Legislation;

    2. Part Time Workers Regulations.

    Each of these can stand or fall in its own right and has different criteria for success. Likewise, each will bring different rewards if successful.

    The prize would be victory in the Equal Pay claims. This would roll back pensions as far as 1976 (when the legislation came in). By contrast, the PTWR regulations are quite recent and we could not backdate those claims beyond the year 2000.

    I am however pleased to say that specialist Counsel feels that it is the Equal Pay claims which are the strongest. This advice takes into consideration recent European developments in the law.

    Who should make claims?

    There is a misconception that people do not need to make actual claims because they would benefit from a victory in any event. Not so.

    A victory is likely to mean that the MoD would change its rules for the future. It would not be under any obligation to change the rules retrospectively.

    Anyone not lodging claims before the Tribunal would not have complained about historical treatment. As such, only future service would count toward a pension.

    Not everyone is eligible to claim. This depends on how long they have been out of the TA. If it is more than 9 months they will be statute barred. Anyone still serving or retired less then 9 months can claim.

    It is not essential to follow an Internal Redress procedure before making a claim. The MoD has conceded that Equal Pay claims do not require this.


    We start with a simple questionnaire. I attach a copy.

    This is used to prepare a standard form of claim. The MoD would then serve its Defence, also in a standard form. Of course they adopt the same Defence in each case.

    All claims will be administered as a group by the Tribunal. Standard procedure is to hold a Case Management Conference, attended by lawyers only, where the issues are considered and a timetable set. We expect this to happen fairly soon.

    We do not yet have a trial date. The delay is largely due to people waiting on the (favorable) decision in a large case before the European Court of Justice. It is likely to take about a year for us to get to trial.

    Legal Team

    This comprises our firm and a specialist London barrister. We have together spent a vast amount of time laying the ground work and getting the claims to their present point.

    I am totally convinced that there is no one else in the country with the expertise which our team possesses. People are of course invited to look at the website for both Fox Hayes and our barrister, Melanie Tether at Old Square Chambers.

    Way forward

    It is now critical to increase our numbers as much as possible.

    I would hope that we could form a network of groups, each with its own spokesman.

    It is vital that everyone share a unified approach. I am aware that some TA members may be going down the wrong route independently. This could have fatal consequences for them. I would not like to see anyone with a good claim fail because they have not gone about it the right way.

    It would be very helpful to find someone with Legal Expenses insurance. Often people have this without knowing it. If anyone thinks they do I strongly advise that I submit the insurance claim for them.

    I am very happy to discuss things by telephone. I look forward to hearing from you.

    Yours sincerely

    Michael Morse

    Enc Preliminary Questionnaire


    Fox Hayes Solicitors of Bank House, 150 Roundhay Road, Leeds LS8 5LD, and Unit 3 Roseville Business Park, Roseville Road, Leeds LS8 5DR


    Preliminary Questionnaire

    1. Name:

    2. Address:

    3. Tel No:

    4. Age:

    5. Joining Date:

    6. Leaving Date:

    7. Regiment:

    8. Rank:

    9. Days served per year:

    10. Pay and Benefits:

    11. Enquiries re Pension:
  9. And the very best of British to those who have the guts to go for it...

    I for one hope they win. (They being the Toms)
  10. Hi I have been in contact with a firm in Leeds who are working on this if anyone wants information (copy of all emails sent and recieved) let me know I will send them on to You.