Pension Advice

[Portree Kid]

I've just copied this from QR's, just for clarity

Thanks for the clarity.

The pertinent date being 01 Jan 1991 ( I was at the 12 year point in 91 )

A new thing ( that I must have missed / ignored / forgotten about ), probably something to do with being in a sandy place on said date

That being said - between 1991 and 2001 there was still people signing up on FTC's and I certainly cannot recall any soldiers coming in on Open Engagement.

Perhaps recruiting offices were still pushing FTC's

 

[Kroneit44]

I didn't think the pension change itself was dodgy, only that the implementation discriminated ancient RAF WOs positively?

 

[Forces Pension Society]

Isn't a full pension 37 years? A 22 year pension being 22/37 of a pension.

AFPS 75 works on Pension Codes and, for an Other Rank, the maximum number of years Reckonable Service that could be counted was 37 years - so, if you left at the 22 year (Immediate Pension) point you would get the 22 year rate (on a table that ran to from 22 to 37 points) for your rank. For Officers the table runs to 34 years and the Immediate Pension point is 16 years Reckonable Service after age 21.

Neither AFPS 05 nor AFPS 15 have an Immediate Pension point because they were prohibited under HMRC rules (AFPS 75 could keep theirs as it was closed to new entrants before the rule change). Instead AFPS 05/15 have Early Departure Payment Schemes which sit outside the pension scheme rules.

 

[Stibbon]

I’m sure we’ve all heard by now about the Court of Appeal ruling that the Government discriminated against a group of judges and firefighters on the grounds of age, in relation to changes to their pension.

As we all know this pension change - along with the mandatory changes also made to Armed Forces pensions - was deemed unlawful. The background being that service personnel within 10 years of pensionable age were afforded grandfather rights, those that weren’t had to put up and shut up.

I understand that the Government and MoD have been looking at how they can remedy this mess of a situation, and a revised pension calculator is due out some time in March 2022.

Lots of narrative has been written about how they go about doing this, however my post comes from a slightly different angle.

Myself, and many other serving personnel, signed up for 22 years service with one eye on full pension eligibility at the age of 40. Overnight, these plans were scuppered based on a decision which has since been ruled unlawful by the courts.

Off the back of this decision and the implementation of AFPS 15, I and many other serving personnel took this decision to leave the Armed Forces. In my mind this was a breach of my contract of employment and indeed unlawful - albeit not mandated as such by the courts at that time.

I’d served for 12 years and had every intention of completing a minimum of 22 years service on AFPS 75 - thus leaving at 40 years of age in receipt of a full pension. This unlawful ruling has effectively taken that away from me, as well as many, many others.

What I haven’t seen in the many announcements from the Government or MoD, is what is being done about the significant lost income for the many individuals that took the decision to leave off the back of this illegal and grossly immoral change in 2015.

I’m aware that constructive dismissal cases for the Armed Forces legally will not be heard, but I am interested in understanding what other options might be available to myself and the many others that fall into this unfortunately category?

Many thanks in advance.

I joined the Army in 1984. I was 17.5 years old.

I joined for:

1. A job
2. The opportunity for travel/experience.
3. To be "different" to all my civvy mates.
4. The idea that however hard I worked tied in with what rank I got to - the salary would/could only get better. (Which it did).

At no stage would my perceived pension benefits have ever motivated me to terminate my service early - not unless I had a job with a much better salary and T & Cs to slide straight into.

In my opinion, you're trying to push water uphill with a pool cue mate.

The decision to leave was yours alone. There are plenty of us that stayed on rather than jump ship.

Making a personal/career choice based on financial gain is everyone's right, but I wouldn't expect somebody to compensate me retrospectively for something that turned out to be the wrong choice (if indeed it was).

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

I certainly feel strong enough in my conviction to seek legal advice on this.

But you don't want to spend £42 on joining the FPS...

Its *always* worth checking your home / contents insurance to see if you have legal expenses cover. I make a point of taking it out, and reckon it saved me a good £50k when I took action against a former employer.

 

[PaulFuzz]

But you don't want to spend £42 on joining the FPS...

Its *always* worth checking your home / contents insurance to see if you have legal expenses cover. I make a point of taking it out, and reckon it saved me a good £50k when I took action against a former employer.

I did join the FPS and they were no help at all with my problem. Anything out of the norm and you get a "let us know how you get on". I had to put in the two complaints and then went to the pension ombudsman and had I been armed with the adequate information from the start I may have won.
So on the issue in question I believe that PG would get the same answer.

 

[Stibbon]

Nor sure I am following PG.

Or perhaps we have a different interpretation of Open Engagement.

By neither signing on or off after my initial 6 year engagement. I automatically went onto Open Engagement, which was basically a 1 year rolling contract which could be terminated by either party by giving 12 months notice. ( That's how I understood it anyway )

I don't think it was ever understood to be a commitment to serve a full 22 years.

Of course, in those days we had 6, 9 & 12 year manning points. Coming through those you were then classed as a Pension Prisoner after 12 years

I will happily accept that certain Corps might have done things a little differently to protect the investment in people.

This is exactly how it was.

There did used to be a "commitment" contract in which you could sign up for 22 years but that changed in the early 80's as I recall. From that point on (up until 1991?) you enlisted on what was (then) called the Notice Engagement. This, as you correctly say was a choice to commit to either 3, 6 or 9 years service.
This option entitled you to scale A, B or C rates of pay respectively, after which you then simply went onto "Open Engagement" with the option to terminate after giving 12 months notice or "PVRing" for which you had to pay for earlier release on a sliding scale based on how long you had left.
I can't recall accurately when all that changed and it morphed into it's current form, but I do remember that the option to gain slightly higher (around maybe £1.50 a day?) daily pay rates disappeared around 1991.

 

[Jorrocks]

Sorry if this is slightly off the topic being discussed. Anyone received their P60 yet this year? The recorded message from Equiniti says it will go out with the next monthly statement, but knowing them, that message could be a couple of months old.

 

[anglo]

Sorry if this is slightly off the topic being discussed. Anyone received their P60 yet this year? The recorded message from Equiniti says it will go out with the next monthly statement, but knowing them, that message could be a couple of months old.

I got mine two weeks ago.

 

[exbleep]

Sorry if this is slightly off the topic being discussed. Anyone received their P60 yet this year? The recorded message from Equiniti says it will go out with the next monthly statement, but knowing them, that message could be a couple of months old.

Got mine yesterday, posted to my address in Spain.

 

[2_old_4_this_$h1t]

This is exactly how it was.

There did used to be a "commitment" contract in which you could sign up for 22 years but that changed in the early 80's as I recall. From that point on (up until 1991?) you enlisted on what was (then) called the Notice Engagement. This, as you correctly say was a choice to commit to either 3, 6 or 9 years service.
This option entitled you to scale A, B or C rates of pay respectively, after which you then simply went onto "Open Engagement" with the option to terminate after giving 12 months notice or "PVRing" for which you had to pay for earlier release on a sliding scale based on how long you had left.
I can't recall accurately when all that changed and it morphed into it's current form, but I do remember that the option to gain slightly higher (around maybe £1.50 a day?) daily pay rates disappeared around 1991.

I joined on those terms in January 1977 and chose the 9 year/scale C option.

 

[Donny]

I got mine two weeks ago.

Me too…

 

[Bubbles_Barker]

I got mine two weeks ago.

#metoo

 

[Jorrocks]

Got mine yesterday, posted to my address in Spain.

Thanks, I´m in Spain too, so I´ll pop into town to check my correspondence address.

 

[06FA56Paderborn]

Neither myself or Mrs 06 have had our P60s yet this year.

 

[Ned_Seagoon]

Mine came through (Western France) yesterday.

 

[Portree Kid]

This is exactly how it was.

Thanks for that

I appreciate that I am now getting on a bit, but hoped that old timers disease wasn't kicking in just yet