PCSOs With Cuffs

#1
Lately I've noticed lots of the BTP plastic plod with cuffs on their belt kit. I understood that they had no power to arrest or restrain. Can anyone who knows better enlighten me?

PS I saw the referred to recently as "CHIMPS" - Can't Help In Most Policing Situations.

...A taxi, for me? I'll get my coat.
 
#2
foxs_marine said:
Lately I've noticed lots of the BTP plastic plod with cuffs on their belt kit. I understood that they had no power to arrest or restrain. Can anyone who knows better enlighten me?

PS I saw the referred to recently as "CHIMPS" - Can't Help In Most Policing Situations.

...A taxi, for me? I'll get my coat.
Foxs, they are just carrying the equipment for the big boys, the same as every public schholboy had a fag to do his running around.
 
#3
As far as I'm aware, they don't have the powers of a constable, but everyone has the power to arrest and restrain, even you.

If there is an offence being committed and it isn't reasonably practicable to have a constable make the arrest, and the arrest is necessary (i.e. he is being violent to other passengers etc and he can't just be picked up later) then any person may use reasonable force to effect the arrest. If the PCSOs have received training in the use of handcuffs, then there's no reason they can't use them in such a circumstance.
 
#4
(s)TiVo said:
As far as I'm aware, they don't have the powers of a constable, but everyone has the power to arrest and restrain, even you.
Aye... and you will then be promptly arrested yourself for assault and false imprisonment by a copper that's appeared as if from nowhere. Boxes will be ticked. Plod will be happy. CPS will be over the moon. And you'll be rubber gloved, swabbed and thrown in a cell before being found guilty of being a self-righteous, Daily Mail-reading have-a-go-muppet and will be saddled with a criminal record for ever and ever... Amen!

All those who think that'll go down well on their application to emigrate to NZ one pace forwards. STAND FCUKING STILL THAT MAN! Is it any wonder why people don't get involved?
 

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#5
Do their collars and cuffs match?
 
#6
foxs_marine said:
Lately I've noticed lots of the BTP plastic plod with cuffs on their belt kit. I understood that they had no power to arrest or restrain. Can anyone who knows better enlighten me?

PS I saw the referred to recently as "CHIMPS" - Can't Help In Most Policing Situations.

...A taxi, for me? I'll get my coat.
Apparently so, but they complained about it due to the monkey angle so they were then referred to as CHAMPS - Cant Help AT Most Policing Situations! They didn't seem to mind that one.

As for Bucks sensational Daily Mailesque rant. The thing with any person powers of arrest is as long as any force you used was reasonable then you're ok. Though I agree it's a potential legal minefield.

Anyone with some common sense should know what's reasonable so giving wayne or waynetta an extra couple of slaps if they try and cut up rough and you've got them restrained on the floor already is what gets you in bother, as well as overpowering your criminal with the help of 2 others, tying him up, bundling him in a van, and parading him through the streets with a sign around his neck before taking him to the nick.

People still do bother as well. A bloke wielding an axe smashing up cars in my force area a few weeks ago was decked by some bloke who saw him doing it and restrained him. He's not in any bother. The bloke with the axe is though. By the time the local plod turned up about 5 minutes after the call came in (it was some distance from the nearest nick) it was all sorted.
 
#7
The problem being that it's force of the reasonable kind that seldom works - especially if you're on yer jack. I would warn against anyone not schooled in C&R, or who does not restrain others on a daily basis by default of their job from even attempting it.

Good drills to the geezer for tackling the mad axeman. Unfortunately (for me), it's my ever worsening cynicism that has probably pigeon holed me in to the box of 'Gawping Bystander' rather than 'Duty Hero'. There was a time when I'd have been wading in with arms flailing. But these days? Is it really worth taking a gamble? Not only are there eager plods hungry for Sanction Detections, but there are way too many drugged up lunatics on day release for my liking.
 
#8
saintstone said:
foxs_marine said:
Lately I've noticed lots of the BTP plastic plod with cuffs on their belt kit. I understood that they had no power to arrest or restrain. Can anyone who knows better enlighten me?

PS I saw the referred to recently as "CHIMPS" - Can't Help In Most Policing Situations.

...A taxi, for me? I'll get my coat.
Foxs, they are just carrying the equipment for the big boys, the same as every public schholboy had a fag to do his running around.
Christ, imagine being a fag to a police officer, how far down the food chanin can you get?
 
#9
BuckFelize said:
(s)TiVo said:
As far as I'm aware, they don't have the powers of a constable, but everyone has the power to arrest and restrain, even you.
Aye... and you will then be promptly arrested yourself for assault and false imprisonment by a copper that's appeared as if from nowhere. Boxes will be ticked. Plod will be happy. CPS will be over the moon. And you'll be rubber gloved, swabbed and thrown in a cell before being found guilty of being a self-righteous, Daily Mail-reading have-a-go-muppet and will be saddled with a criminal record for ever and ever... Amen!

All those who think that'll go down well on their application to emigrate to NZ one pace forwards. STAND FCUKING STILL THAT MAN! Is it any wonder why people don't get involved?
Not strictly true. You can arrest somebody if they are:
a committing an arrestable offence
b about to comit an arrestable offence
c have committed an arrestable offence.

Identify yourself, inform them they are being arrested and why.

The law is on your side. A bit of respect and trust in the Police Service and this will filter down to the scrotes that have none. If the scum know the police have the backing of the public then a lot of the problems will slowly fade away
 
#10
old_fat_and_hairy said:
Do their collars and cuffs match?
Trust you to bring the tone down







But I was wondering the same myself
 
#11
I've seen the same thing with a security guard in Paignton, walking along with a Highviz bomber jacket with security written on the back and a pair of cuffs sticking out of a pouch on his belt. Mentioned this to a friends husband who is an Inspector and his answer was that they are allowed to use them, but unlike the police who have training on how to use them, if the person restrained cries foul then the guard is in a very sticky situation with a likely charge of assault or similar. His advice was for the guard just to restrain until the Police arrived! Or maybe I've just come across the worlds first Police Walt?! :wink:
 
#12
When I worked as a bouncer I used to use zip ties to restrain scrotes who kicked of, the cops used to just laugh.
 
#13
The_Seagull said:
If they try and cut up rough and you've got them restrained on the floor already is what gets you in bother, as well as overpowering your criminal with the help of 2 others,


But are two 5' 0"(HLI Bantams) allowed to do a 6'4''(Coldstreamer)... :wink:
 
#15
pots359v said:
BuckFelize said:
(s)TiVo said:
As far as I'm aware, they don't have the powers of a constable, but everyone has the power to arrest and restrain, even you.
Aye... and you will then be promptly arrested yourself for assault and false imprisonment by a copper that's appeared as if from nowhere. Boxes will be ticked. Plod will be happy. CPS will be over the moon. And you'll be rubber gloved, swabbed and thrown in a cell before being found guilty of being a self-righteous, Daily Mail-reading have-a-go-muppet and will be saddled with a criminal record for ever and ever... Amen!

All those who think that'll go down well on their application to emigrate to NZ one pace forwards. STAND FCUKING STILL THAT MAN! Is it any wonder why people don't get involved?
Not strictly true. You can arrest somebody if they are:
a committing an arrestable offence
b about to comit an arrestable offence
c have committed an arrestable offence.

Identify yourself, inform them they are being arrested and why.

The law is on your side. A bit of respect and trust in the Police Service and this will filter down to the scrotes that have none. If the scum know the police have the backing of the public then a lot of the problems will slowly fade away
I agree with the sentiment of the post. I would be very careful about the powers of arrest sketch (points a-c) above. This could be problematic in a scenarion where it is not clear cut that an 'arrestable offence' has taken place. Imagine the scenario. You come across a bloke smashing a car up. You dive in and detain him, and whilst doing so, you injure him in the process. Problem is, it's his car. He says he was trying to tell you, but the red mist kicked in. Standy for a visit from OB, and/or civil suit. y the way, there is no such thing as an 'arrestable offence' anymore, but that's another story.

Buck, notwithstanding the above I think you are being ultra cynical. Not like you mate :wink: I honestly cannot think of one incident in my career where I have arrested or even come near to arresting someone who acted 'reasonably' when faced with a situation where a citizens arrest was required. I have had a few where Joe Public has got totally carried away and beaten the living daylights out of someone for committing a relatively low level crime. Sorry mate,whichever way you look at it, that can't be right. Most OB would congratulate someone for carrying out a citizens arrest, and if the scrote received an injury during a struggle, well tough. No way would the VAST majority of OB look to tick a sanction detection box in that situation. Don't believe the hype. I suggest you cancel your suvscription to the Daily Mail :D
 
#16
The security guards at Blackpool pleasure beach walt it up as coppers, Looking very much the part with cuffs and stuff, And just as fat. Must be all that candy floss
 
#17
When I was a Probationer, I was called to Coroner's Court in connection with a suicide I had attended. There was an, ahem, 'Sgt' from the 'Birmingham Markets Police' Whilst waiting to be called, I chatted to him about this and that, constantly referring to him as Sarge. He loved it. I still go red with embarrassment at the very thought.......
 
#18
pots359v said:
BuckFelize said:
(s)TiVo said:
As far as I'm aware, they don't have the powers of a constable, but everyone has the power to arrest and restrain, even you.
Aye... and you will then be promptly arrested yourself for assault and false imprisonment by a copper that's appeared as if from nowhere. Boxes will be ticked. Plod will be happy. CPS will be over the moon. And you'll be rubber gloved, swabbed and thrown in a cell before being found guilty of being a self-righteous, Daily Mail-reading have-a-go-muppet and will be saddled with a criminal record for ever and ever... Amen!

All those who think that'll go down well on their application to emigrate to NZ one pace forwards. STAND FCUKING STILL THAT MAN! Is it any wonder why people don't get involved?
Not strictly true. You can arrest somebody if they are:
a committing an arrestable offence
b about to comit an arrestable offence
c have committed an arrestable offence.

Identify yourself, inform them they are being arrested and why.

The law is on your side. A bit of respect and trust in the Police Service and this will filter down to the scrotes that have none. If the scum know the police have the backing of the public then a lot of the problems will slowly fade away
Actually I believe that with the introduction of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 and other "anti terrorism" legislation, plod and others can now arrest you for anything they wish! I did have a huge list of offences as laid down by ACPO but see to have mislaid it. Suffice to say offences such as walking down the wrong side of the street with an untethered pig appeared on said list! No big deal until your DNA (for being arrested) is taken, you are entered on a database for the rest of your natural life and then are not charged or convicted of any offence. For those whom doubt it Big Brother is alive and living in the UK
 
#19
Whilst I believe the whole PCSO thing is a waste of time (they are seldom useful for directions) they are issued with cuff's, see it all the time when travelling on the underground, can't blame the idea though, they are at least trying to look the business ;)

It's just amazing that these blunkett bobbies are reasonably well paid and that an unpaid volunteer Special Constable has the power and capability to do everything they can plus the powers of a Constable and they don't even get paid!

Absolutely ludacris!
 
#20
The powers given to PCSOs are controlled by the local chief officer and can vary from force to force. I believe that the BTP have given theirs the maximum that is permitted. Carrying handcuffs does't seem to be against any law that springs to mind.
 

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