PCSOs With Cuffs

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by foxs_marine, Mar 2, 2009.

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  1. Lately I've noticed lots of the BTP plastic plod with cuffs on their belt kit. I understood that they had no power to arrest or restrain. Can anyone who knows better enlighten me?

    PS I saw the referred to recently as "CHIMPS" - Can't Help In Most Policing Situations.

    ...A taxi, for me? I'll get my coat.
  2. Foxs, they are just carrying the equipment for the big boys, the same as every public schholboy had a fag to do his running around.
  3. As far as I'm aware, they don't have the powers of a constable, but everyone has the power to arrest and restrain, even you.

    If there is an offence being committed and it isn't reasonably practicable to have a constable make the arrest, and the arrest is necessary (i.e. he is being violent to other passengers etc and he can't just be picked up later) then any person may use reasonable force to effect the arrest. If the PCSOs have received training in the use of handcuffs, then there's no reason they can't use them in such a circumstance.
  4. Aye... and you will then be promptly arrested yourself for assault and false imprisonment by a copper that's appeared as if from nowhere. Boxes will be ticked. Plod will be happy. CPS will be over the moon. And you'll be rubber gloved, swabbed and thrown in a cell before being found guilty of being a self-righteous, Daily Mail-reading have-a-go-muppet and will be saddled with a criminal record for ever and ever... Amen!

    All those who think that'll go down well on their application to emigrate to NZ one pace forwards. STAND FCUKING STILL THAT MAN! Is it any wonder why people don't get involved?
  5. old_fat_and_hairy

    old_fat_and_hairy LE Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    Do their collars and cuffs match?
  6. Apparently so, but they complained about it due to the monkey angle so they were then referred to as CHAMPS - Cant Help AT Most Policing Situations! They didn't seem to mind that one.

    As for Bucks sensational Daily Mailesque rant. The thing with any person powers of arrest is as long as any force you used was reasonable then you're ok. Though I agree it's a potential legal minefield.

    Anyone with some common sense should know what's reasonable so giving wayne or waynetta an extra couple of slaps if they try and cut up rough and you've got them restrained on the floor already is what gets you in bother, as well as overpowering your criminal with the help of 2 others, tying him up, bundling him in a van, and parading him through the streets with a sign around his neck before taking him to the nick.

    People still do bother as well. A bloke wielding an axe smashing up cars in my force area a few weeks ago was decked by some bloke who saw him doing it and restrained him. He's not in any bother. The bloke with the axe is though. By the time the local plod turned up about 5 minutes after the call came in (it was some distance from the nearest nick) it was all sorted.
  7. The problem being that it's force of the reasonable kind that seldom works - especially if you're on yer jack. I would warn against anyone not schooled in C&R, or who does not restrain others on a daily basis by default of their job from even attempting it.

    Good drills to the geezer for tackling the mad axeman. Unfortunately (for me), it's my ever worsening cynicism that has probably pigeon holed me in to the box of 'Gawping Bystander' rather than 'Duty Hero'. There was a time when I'd have been wading in with arms flailing. But these days? Is it really worth taking a gamble? Not only are there eager plods hungry for Sanction Detections, but there are way too many drugged up lunatics on day release for my liking.
  8. Christ, imagine being a fag to a police officer, how far down the food chanin can you get?
  9. Not strictly true. You can arrest somebody if they are:
    a committing an arrestable offence
    b about to comit an arrestable offence
    c have committed an arrestable offence.

    Identify yourself, inform them they are being arrested and why.

    The law is on your side. A bit of respect and trust in the Police Service and this will filter down to the scrotes that have none. If the scum know the police have the backing of the public then a lot of the problems will slowly fade away
  10. Trust you to bring the tone down

    But I was wondering the same myself
  11. I've seen the same thing with a security guard in Paignton, walking along with a Highviz bomber jacket with security written on the back and a pair of cuffs sticking out of a pouch on his belt. Mentioned this to a friends husband who is an Inspector and his answer was that they are allowed to use them, but unlike the police who have training on how to use them, if the person restrained cries foul then the guard is in a very sticky situation with a likely charge of assault or similar. His advice was for the guard just to restrain until the Police arrived! Or maybe I've just come across the worlds first Police Walt?! :wink:
  12. When I worked as a bouncer I used to use zip ties to restrain scrotes who kicked of, the cops used to just laugh.

  13. But are two 5' 0"(HLI Bantams) allowed to do a 6'4''(Coldstreamer)... :wink:
  14. I agree with the sentiment of the post. I would be very careful about the powers of arrest sketch (points a-c) above. This could be problematic in a scenarion where it is not clear cut that an 'arrestable offence' has taken place. Imagine the scenario. You come across a bloke smashing a car up. You dive in and detain him, and whilst doing so, you injure him in the process. Problem is, it's his car. He says he was trying to tell you, but the red mist kicked in. Standy for a visit from OB, and/or civil suit. y the way, there is no such thing as an 'arrestable offence' anymore, but that's another story.

    Buck, notwithstanding the above I think you are being ultra cynical. Not like you mate :wink: I honestly cannot think of one incident in my career where I have arrested or even come near to arresting someone who acted 'reasonably' when faced with a situation where a citizens arrest was required. I have had a few where Joe Public has got totally carried away and beaten the living daylights out of someone for committing a relatively low level crime. Sorry mate,whichever way you look at it, that can't be right. Most OB would congratulate someone for carrying out a citizens arrest, and if the scrote received an injury during a struggle, well tough. No way would the VAST majority of OB look to tick a sanction detection box in that situation. Don't believe the hype. I suggest you cancel your suvscription to the Daily Mail :D