PC Christmas

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by ViroBono, Nov 13, 2003.

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  1. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    The British Red Cross Society has decided to ban all references to Christmas in its shops and Christmas cards etc. This is from their website:

    "The truth about Christmas

    Chief executive Nick Young explains the British Red Cross' religious neutrality policy

    "The British Red Cross has had a unique neutral role since its foundation in 1870. This is not new. Our neutrality enables us to work effectively in wars, from the Franco-Prussian war then, to the Second World War and more recently in Afghanistan and Iraq. This policy of neutrality saves lives.

    In war zones, we are entrusted with a unique role - visiting prisoners of war and crossing front lines to tend to the wounded, whichever side they are on.

    To do this safely and effectively we have to be neutral. This neutrality is our most precious asset. It is as important on the high street as it is in Iraq. We simply cannot put it at risk.

    That is why, during Christmas and any other religious festivals, we do not feature any overtly religious items, whether in our catalogues, our Christmas cards or on display in our shops."


    Nick Young is actually Sir Nicholas, but is a bit of a right-on PC leftie, hence 'Nick'. Already leaders of Muslim and Jewish communities have criticised his move (as they did last year), saying that it is PC nonsense.

    From his spouting above, I have two questions:

    1. If it's all so neutral, why do we also have the Red Crescent (muslims) and Red Star of David (jews)?
    2. Just how many Coalition PWs did the Red Cross visit in Iraq, and how many Coalition wounded did they treat?

    The last question is rhetorical, because I know the answer (0).

    What is the world coming to? :evil:
     
  2. I have had to put up with exactly this sort of PC bollox in my job too.

    The company that I work for deals with large amounts of EU funds and therefore has a lot of the PC brigade working for it. Last Christmas 3 designs for company Christmas cards were passed round the office to get staff opinions on which one would be used.

    Almost everybody went for one that said "Merry Christmas" on the front and the decision was taken to use this design...until... some knober pointed out that we deal with a number of "non-christian" organisations and that they might find that design "offensive" :evil

    When I laughed in a derisive manner I get some really dirty looks and also a bollocking when I sugested that in that case perhaps my muslim collegue on the other side of the room wouldn't be wanting his 2 weeks of Christmas holiday :twisted:
     
  3. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    I wonder how many muslims, jews, sikhs, hindus, jaines, Buddhists and others who own shops in UK will be so offended at the thought of people buying presents for a Christian festival that they will not put up decorations or will turn down the extra sales?
     
  4. Personaly I would be quite happy to get the whole of Rammadan off too :twisted:
     
  5. Christmas ? Hmmmnnnn...........

    Isn't it a pagan festival anyway? 25th Dec was hijacked by the christians because it coincided with the pagan winter solstice. I think it was the feast of saturnalia (norse).
    Father xmas was originally green - made red by the coca cola co. in the 30's
    There is no mention of christmas in the bible!
    There is no evidence that J.C was born on 25th Dec!
    Boxing day was the original gift giving day.
    Kissing under misletoe was reintroduced by the victorians. Which has now turned into knee trembling shags at the office party with the boss!
    The yuletide log has some connection but cant remember and its nothing to do with steamy brown ones on the crapper.
     
  6. Yeah, but if I get 2 weeks holiday then I'm not complaining :D

    Besides, I'm agnostic (should have seen the Adj's face at my attestment!) so it really is all balls to me.
     
  7. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    25th Dec was adopted during the Pontificate of Gregory the Great and the adoption of his calendar.

    The Gregorian Canlendar distorted the lunar one still used in the middle east, so the actual time of the birth of Christ would have been around the end of September.

    Boxing Day was so called because the servants attended to the household on Xmas day and were given Boxing Day off to spend with their families, and were given a thank-you gift by the master of the house which was presented in a box. That's why it is a bank holiday in the UK, but a working day almost everywhere else in the world.

    As for offence, why would a Muslim be offended at Christians celebrating a Christian festival in what is still, nominally at least, a Christian country? All the muslims I know are no more offended at it than I am by their celebration of Eid. In fact one Muslim friend sends me an Eid greeting every year, and I am in fact quite honoured that he would include me in those wishes. It's only the Millie Tant PC brigade that care, something that is more offensive to people of other religions than the idea that Christians might celebrate the birth of the person without whom you wouldn't have the religion. I am not surprised that they get pissed off that the white middle-class Guardian reading liberals think that they have a right to speak for every community in the country about what they should/should not and do/do not find offensive.

    Let's not go down the road of the US where you have to say "Happy Holidays" as Happy/Merry Christmas isn't allowed!
     
  8. Is it me or is political correctness a poor substitute for good manners and a general respect for people? Politicaly correct people seem to spend more time worrying about what other races/creeds may be offended by than tose races/creeds themselves.

    The only Muslims who really mind Christmas celebrations are Talib-a-likes and the only "christians" who object to Eid and Rammadan are pretty much fascists or fundamentalists. Neither mob really matters to the vast majority of people.

    You don't have to be christian to have a merry christmas or enjoy a couple of days off and I can't see a reason to object if someone wished me the joy of their particular season unless it's the equivalent of "happy 9/11 day". However Enlightened companies may offer to exchange christmas holidays for Ramadan/hajj/Diwalli/Yom Kippur/Elvis's B-day/whatever if they can and that seems a good way to sort things out if you need staff over chrimble. Non-christians often remark how little attention is paid to Easter when it is a far more important religious festival than Christmas.


    Saturnalia is a Pagan Roman festival (Saturn was a Roman god). Yule is the Northern European version. Nobody can be really sure of the correct date because of the number of different calenders involved. We aren't even sure of the year.
     
  9. Semi valid point. Might have worked if it wasn't for one thing that I witnessed 3 years on the trot whilst working for my last employer.

    Resident Muslim has whatever the fcuk it is that they have off, then bitches like fcuk about the rest of the lads volunteering him to cover the 24 hour call out over Christmas. My boss then, being the spineless fcuk that he was, backs down on the fears of "racial discrimination". Aforementioned muslim gets 2 religious holidays and doesn't get spammed for Christmas, even though he doesn't celebrate it.

    As an employer now, I don't discriminate. However, I do ask that people list any religious holidays that they wish to observe, and, after taking advice from the C of C, I have a "tick box" listing all of the major religions festivals. Terms & Conditions state that they may not claim a religious holiday that they have not previously declared. I would like to see a court case where someone can claim to be both a muslime and a Christian.

    This country is fcuked when it comes to dealing with any religion other than C of E, everyone is so scared of being branded by the PC that they let the minorities get away with anything. If they are taking the p1ss then they are taking the p1ss, it doesn't matter what colour / creed / religion they are. DON'T let them gat away with it. If you do, you are allowing any tw a t that wants an easy ride to try it on.

    If you employ one, don't disrespect him, don't treat him any differently, but make sure that you have EVERYTHING down on paper, that way it will never come back to bite you on the arse.
     
  10. It's easy to be PC - All these bleeding hearts so worried about what others will think should you be in way inclined to Christian seem to forget that Jesus (who's supposed birthday is celebrated don't forget) holds a unique and exulted position to Moslems.

    Viz

    Islam's prophet, Muhammad, believed Jesus was the Messiah, Allah's anointed messenger. Allah's people are told to listen to Allah's messengers (Koran, IV.171; V. 111*).

    I don't see many Jews getting too offside around Yuletide either. So who are they worried about upsetting? Pagans ? Moonies ? Branch Davidians ?

    As for 'positive discrimination' towards non-Christians - When I left the Army I worked for a large company who allowed Muslims to slope off to the Mosque every Friday afternoon (which was known as the Friday Afternoon Arrse Up) . When a few off us went to the shift boss one Sunday morning and said we were off to church he hit the roof !!

    I'm with 5 Mile any way - Agnostic. can a PC person please tell me if I should be upset if I receive a Christmas card ??
     
  11. All good points made above. I have lived with Muslims, Jews, Bhuddists and a variety of Christians, and not one has ever protested about any Christian festival being celebrated. I understand the Red Cross are being sensitive (their cross is an inversion of the Swiss flag BTW, nothing to do with Christianity) but I think they are being oversensitive. However they do have to work among the extremists listed above, so they may have a point.

    Christmas was hijacked by Christians when they were establishing their church in Britain, as was Easter. The yule log is a symbol of the Horned God, the Christmas tree is the pagan symbol for life enduring through cold dark winter, the Winter Equinox (21 Dec) is celebrated as the birth of the God, the Spring Equinox (Mar 20) is celebrated as the festival of the Goddess Ostara whose symbol is the egg (hence chocolate eggs at 'Easter'), May Day is Beltane, festival of fertility (hence the May Pole........), Autumn Equinox (Sep 20) is the festival of Harvest and finally Halloween (Samhain to the pagans) is Summer's End and festival of the Dead. Paganism is an ancient religion and was practised throughout all of Europe, and includes the Roman and Egyptian Gods.

    But disparaging anyone's religious belief is foolish, it all means the same thing in the end.
     
  12. Thanks woopert and prodigal, I thought I as the only one championing pagan rituals. Also interesting to note the jury system we have in our country stems from the Norse invaders many moons ago.

    In my home town there is a pagan ritual of the Jack in the Green. This chap is paraded around the old town banishing the winter and welcoming the spring, its all done with lots of noise ( just an excuse for a pi$$ up), The Jack in the Green is then burned.

    My mother is also my sister!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
     
  13. or really even born at all