PC Andrew Harper.

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Entirely understandable predicament. I would say that it's on the ACPO ranks to make government aware of that kind of scenario, and ask the Home Secretary difficult questions like "with the current level of funding, I need to de-prioritise one of these calls, which of them would you prefer that be?"
I think the ACPO are a part of the problem. The impression given is that they fall over themselves to conform to a PC agenda and always seem to be able to spare resources to dance with stabby drug dealers of a certain complexion or follow up on the most spurious issues if there's a chance of ticking the right box.

I don't blame the boys and girls on the ground but it seems to an outsider that the lack of decisive leadership and a failure to adhere to the unshakeable doctrine that the law applies to all equally, has led to a situation where the policing of minority groups is fraught with professional jeopardy and it takes an extreme incident like this before anything robust is done.

In the safety industry, HSE folk can tell the likelihood of a serious injury or fatality occurring by the number of near misses that are clocked up, that's why they're taken seriously and followed up on, even if no harm's done. In a similar vein, I wonder what the combined form of those involved in this incident looks like?

Again, as an outsider, it seems that part of the problem is that, in addition to Calamity May's depredations, we have essentially reduced the number and effectiveness of the police by disproportionately increasing the amount of time and effort they require to spend on process in order to be compliant and ensure that the crims don't walk on a technicality.
 
Jed FOSTER charged with murder:


FOSTER was one of the ten arrested. The other nine are out on bail until 13th September 2019
Foster was charged with the police officer's murder on Monday night after detectives at Thames Valley Police were given an extra 24 hours to question 10 suspects in total.

The other nine - aged between 13 and 30 - were released on bail until 13 September.
 

Chef

LE
I don't think there is such a thing as a no-go area. Even if, hypothetically, TVP had treated this area as a no-go area in the past, there was no choice but to raid the place on this occasion. Thus it is not a no-go area.

I suppose it comes down to whether the strategy is to contain the criminality to that one small area and somewhat tolerate it, or whether to eradicate it. That probably comes down to the level of criminality. If it's petty theft by a known group and it's contained to a small area, and the policing effort to prevent that is disproportionate to the effect, then I can quite see the decision being made to concentrate effort on other priorities. On the other hand, murder of a serving officer leaves no room for discretion.
Except it doesn't contain it in one small area does it? It merely gives the law breakers a safe haven to retreat to, rather like the NVA in Vietnam or US types legging it into the next state.

As the immediate area is robbed out they denizens of the no go area merely move further out.

It would be delightful to see some of these sites swamped by police, not nicking people per se but escorting an army of Customs Officers to check for red diesel, vehicle inspectors to check wagons and caravans and most importantly tax officials to be asking for receipts, accounts and estimating tax due based on property owned.

If the police stumble on any stolen property on the way that's just a bonus.
 

CrazyLegs!

War Hero
Except it doesn't contain it in one small area does it? It merely gives the law breakers a safe haven to retreat to, rather like the NVA in Vietnam or US types legging it into the next state.

As the immediate area is robbed out they denizens of the no go area merely move further out.

It would be delightful to see some of these sites swamped by police, not nicking people per se but escorting an army of Customs Officers to check for red diesel, vehicle inspectors to check wagons and caravans and most importantly tax officials to be asking for receipts, accounts and estimating tax due based on property owned.

If the police stumble on any stolen property on the way that's just a bonus.
Unexplained wealth orders would do a world of good.
 
Except it doesn't contain it in one small area does it? It merely gives the law breakers a safe haven to retreat to, rather like the NVA in Vietnam or US types legging it into the next state.

As the immediate area is robbed out they denizens of the no go area merely move further out.

It would be delightful to see some of these sites swamped by police, not nicking people per se but escorting an army of Customs Officers to check for red diesel, vehicle inspectors to check wagons and caravans and most importantly tax officials to be asking for receipts, accounts and estimating tax due based on property owned.

If the police stumble on any stolen property on the way that's just a bonus.
Indeed so, but you can't plan the invasion of Europe with an Army of 5.
 

Chef

LE
Unexplained wealth orders would do a world of good.
That's the thing I was thinking of. I can't imagine that there'd be many receipts to explain the shiny new Mercs and other trinkets that abound in some locations, given the propensity of many roofers and driveway experts to work mostly for cash.

I've always quite liked Al Capone being taken down for tax problems. As much as anything it also reduces a villain's reputation:

'Spuds's on the 'moor for armed robbery.'

'Well 'ard, what about Slim?'

'Twenty years in Slade for tax evasion and outstanding parking fines'.

'Pillock!'.
 

Chalkster69

Swinger
Peter Hitchens argues that prisons (horrible places) have no realistic prospect of reforming offenders, but at least a firm and prompt approach could have a deterrent effect on others. Grasp the nettle firmly?
I was talking about prisons at the weekend with some mates, whilst liberally lubricated, & the overall consensus was that they need to go back to being fecking horrible places that no-one ever wants to go back to.

Hours of drudgery & pointless work. Sod the "rehabilitation", make them fecking miserable for the time they're in there & they'll either go straight or get better at nicking....
 
I was talking about prisons at the weekend with some mates, whilst liberally lubricated, & the overall consensus was that they need to go back to being fecking horrible places that no-one ever wants to go back to.

Hours of drudgery & pointless work. Sod the "rehabilitation", make them fecking miserable for the time they're in there & they'll either go straight or get better at nicking....
Having this sort of discussion in work today. Different types of prisons are needed.

Supermax for Rapists, some murderers, Drug dealers and paedophiles. No privileges, bland food and hard labour.

For other offenders, chain gangs clearing roadsides, doing menial but vital jobs while dressed in Pink coveralls. Dependant upon the crime and attitude of the prisoner maybe education and some privileges. ANY display of violence or other unsavoury behaviour, solitary confinement outside in a tiny tin shed. Fed the bare minimum to ensure survival.

Make prisons a place to be fearful of, tighten up sentencing, if prisoners kick off about the new regime, CS gas them, brutal amounts of force used against them. Make them fear prison officers, make it that they know if they play up the consequences and retribution will be so severe that they dare not do it in the first place.
 
Having this sort of discussion in work today. Different types of prisons are needed.

Supermax for Rapists, some murderers, Drug dealers and paedophiles. No privileges, bland food and hard labour.

For other offenders, chain gangs clearing roadsides, doing menial but vital jobs while dressed in Pink coveralls. Dependant upon the crime and attitude of the prisoner maybe education and some privileges. ANY display of violence or other unsavoury behaviour, solitary confinement outside in a tiny tin shed. Fed the bare minimum to ensure survival.

Make prisons a place to be fearful of, tighten up sentencing, if prisoners kick off about the new regime, CS gas them, brutal amounts of force used against them. Make them fear prison officers, make it that they know if they play up the consequences and retribution will be so severe that they dare not do it in the first place.
It’s too politically unpalatable to do anything like that now. Would be on a par with returning the death penalty. Human rights and the increasingly ‘woke’ populous.
Who totally disregard the poor sods working the prisons,treading on egg shells on a shit wage.
We’re now in a societal snake eating it’s own tail situation.
 
Just listening to the news, the accused brief has said he is totally innocent and was not involved in anyway. He's also urged the Police to search for the "real" culprits.
I didn't expect it to admit guilt....but the brass neck on these people still astonishes me.

Note I have attempted to be Politically Correct, I did not use the words thieving pikey scum.
While it may be difficult to stomach, the chap is simply doing his job: defending his client by all legal means available.

As our American cousins are wont to say, "Hate the Game, not the Player".
 
I see Nottinghamshire are going to issue all Officers a taser who wish to carry one, however I can't see how that would of helped in this case. Surely the others involved could be charged with culpable homicide as they were there and could have prevented it.
Northamptonshire, not Notts
 
Having this sort of discussion in work today. Different types of prisons are needed.

Supermax for Rapists, some murderers, Drug dealers and paedophiles. No privileges, bland food and hard labour.

For other offenders, chain gangs clearing roadsides, doing menial but vital jobs while dressed in Pink coveralls. Dependant upon the crime and attitude of the prisoner maybe education and some privileges. ANY display of violence or other unsavoury behaviour, solitary confinement outside in a tiny tin shed. Fed the bare minimum to ensure survival.

Make prisons a place to be fearful of, tighten up sentencing, if prisoners kick off about the new regime, CS gas them, brutal amounts of force used against them. Make them fear prison officers, make it that they know if they play up the consequences and retribution will be so severe that they dare not do it in the first place.
Excellent ideas which, of course, have absolutely no chance of being implemented. There is simply neither the political will nor the money to carry out such sweeping changes. You would need to build a lot more prisons, hire thousands of new PO's and retrain the ones you already have. In addition to the political ramifications of such a huge change to UK law.
 

TotalBanker

Old-Salt
Having this sort of discussion in work today. Different types of prisons are needed.

Supermax for Rapists, some murderers, Drug dealers and paedophiles. No privileges, bland food and hard labour.

For other offenders, chain gangs clearing roadsides, doing menial but vital jobs while dressed in Pink coveralls. Dependant upon the crime and attitude of the prisoner maybe education and some privileges. ANY display of violence or other unsavoury behaviour, solitary confinement outside in a tiny tin shed. Fed the bare minimum to ensure survival.

Make prisons a place to be fearful of, tighten up sentencing, if prisoners kick off about the new regime, CS gas them, brutal amounts of force used against them. Make them fear prison officers, make it that they know if they play up the consequences and retribution will be so severe that they dare not do it in the first place.
My pennyworth, would be no time deducted for good behaviour, but extra time added for bad behaviour
 
I REALLY wish some of these politicians would look in here and see the depth of feeling of ordinary folk.

Enough is enough.
 
With regard to no political will for harsh punishments, & no funds to implement changes, I can't understand how these people, who (as far as I'm aware), don't pay taxes, don't contribute to the NHS, etc, can get a brief for 'free'? Surely they should have to fund their own legal defence?
 
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I REALLY wish some of these politicians would look in here and see the depth of feeling of ordinary folk.

Enough is enough.

Do as I have done, bring the forums and threads of Arrse to their attention, specifically ones which are appropriate to their area of expertise. Your MPs contact numbers E-mails and fax numbers are readily available via Google.
 
TARGET APPROACHING!

You nearly always see that line in incident logs
Target??!!

Nominal... of course ;)

I’m pretty new to this so not really qualified to transmit about it.
 

FEASG

LE
And MAKE it five years - none of this 'get setenced to five years but let out after two-and-a-bit 'cos you kept your nose clean inside' rubbish.
Always amazes me that people still think that, you get half remission for good behaviour. You get out at the half way point because they can't afford to keep people in prison. It's no wonder that people think they can do what they want, when the system talk the talk. But in reality is one big bluff.
 

syrup

LE

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