PC Andrew Harper.

Disagree. Certain crimes are so vile, the perpetrator is beyond both redemption and rehabilitations. Would you ever be comfortable with Couzens being set free among potential victims, for example? So you can waste taxpayer's money keeping them in jail for decades, until they die or are so far gone they cannot pose any physical threat. Or you can execute them.

Both the economics and the morality are clearly in favour of execution, IMHO.
Did you watch the video? Some perpetrators are so vile death means nothing to them, there's no closure as the death is delayed for so long and speeding up death doesn't work either, there's no deterrent effect, no cost saving, nothing.
 
Yes.

Any further questions?
No, I think we booth know where we stand, such a pity you couldn't get your point across without repeating a falsehood., and when exposed saying "well it should be" OWTTE. Poor show.
 
Did you watch the video? Some perpetrators are so vile death means nothing to them, there's no closure as the death is delayed for so long and speeding up death doesn't work either, there's no deterrent effect, no cost saving, nothing.
Even if it takes a couple of years to exhaust the appeals process, that would still be cheaper by orders of magnitude than keeping them in jail for decades.
 
Indeed we do. You think you are right, whereas I know you're a cretin.
I'd rather be thought of as a cretin than a bearer of untruths, one's an accident of life, the other a sign of a lack of integrity, of course you may have honestly believed what you posted was true in which case, someone that gullible is far too simple minded to pass judgement on another's intelligence..
 

Nemesis44UK

LE
Book Reviewer
The death penalty is never coming back. The uproar from our european cousins and half the population of this country would not allow it.

I'm in favour of the death penalty in theory, but in practice, it just doesn't work.

More than half of death row inmates have been waiting more than 18 years for the sentence to be carried out.
In 1982, the average wait for execution was 74 months, in 2019 it was 243 months.

During that time, prisoners are heavily restricted on visitors and exercise, naturally due to having "nothing to lose." The constant anxiety over execution dates can be deemed as cruel. (No crueller than the victim or their families have suffered).

Even if the big day does arrive (almost certainly not if you are behind bars in California, which hasn't seen an inmate executed in decades), there is a paucity in the drugs most often used for executions. A lot of countries won't export them to the US if they are being used for executions as they deem it immoral.

This has forced the US to be creative with their administration of the lethal injection, leading to efficacy issues and prisoners suffering an agonising hypoxic death.

Added to that, the fact that even vanilla murder can get the death penalty in the US. I would prefer to reserve the privilege for those utter dregs of society like the Toolbox murderers in the US, or anyone that murders and/or rapes children.

Having said all that, there is utter scum who deserve to be peeled like a banana and thrown into saltwater. Colin Pitchfork is one, Ian Huntley is another and Jon Venables is a third. For them, even a future on death row would be more than they deserve.

Also, assuming that the UK could overcome all the hurdles above, would we really be okay with turning Parliament Square into a colder form of Chop-Chop Square? Sharia law is particularly brutal and I don't see the UK being better for its implementation.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The death penalty is never coming back. The uproar from our european cousins and half the population of this country would not allow it.

I'm in favour of the death penalty in theory, but in practice, it just doesn't work.

More than half of death row inmates have been waiting more than 18 years for the sentence to be carried out.
In 1982, the average wait for execution was 74 months, in 2019 it was 243 months.

During that time, prisoners are heavily restricted on visitors and exercise, naturally due to having "nothing to lose." The constant anxiety over execution dates can be deemed as cruel. (No crueller than the victim or their families have suffered).

Even if the big day does arrive (almost certainly not if you are behind bars in California, which hasn't seen an inmate executed in decades), there is a paucity in the drugs most often used for executions. A lot of countries won't export them to the US if they are being used for executions as they deem it immoral.

This has forced the US to be creative with their administration of the lethal injection, leading to efficacy issues and prisoners suffering an agonising hypoxic death.

Added to that, the fact that even vanilla murder can get the death penalty in the US. I would prefer to reserve the privilege for those utter dregs of society like the Toolbox murderers in the US, or anyone that murders and/or rapes children.

Having said all that, there is utter scum who deserve to be peeled like a banana and thrown into saltwater. Colin Pitchfork is one, Ian Huntley is another and Jon Venables is a third. For them, even a future on death row would be more than they deserve.

Also, assuming that the UK could overcome all the hurdles above, would we really be okay with turning Parliament Square into a colder form of Chop-Chop Square? Sharia law is particularly brutal and I don't see the UK being better for its implementation.
I agree. Morally I’m in favour of the death penalty but there are so many practical considerations to render it impractical.

Those who think we could sweep aside the endless wrangling and appeals only need to look at the immigration system and see how that goes. We have a government that wants to deport criminals and illegal immigrants but can’t.
 
Result.

Apologies if already posted somewhere else.

The Ministry of Justice said it would aim to pass Harper's Law in England and Wales "as soon as possible".

If passed, the new law would introduce mandatory life sentences for those who kill on-duty emergency workers while committing a crime.




All well & good BUT IMHO the death penalty would be better. As once imprisoned criminals would be difficult to control, even if they killed another prisoner or warder, what could the authorities do, they are already never leaving prison!
It would have the added benefit of A) being cheaper and B) freeing up space.

There are already c. 75 people serving whole life sentences in our jails and c, 8,500 more serving "life" sentences.
The cost is enormous c. £32,000 pa per prisoners.
 
When Capital Punishment was repealed, it was on the understanding that a Life Sentence would mean exactly that. The fact that successive generations of politicians and judges have failed in their moral duty to the citizens of this country does not change that.


I remember the abolishing of the death penalty v. well in 1965. I was living in Earls Court at the time and I remember asking a small time petty criminal I had nicked when I was in the NRP and who I had met in the Zambezi Club, what he thought of it. His response was "it wont affect blokes like me BUT all the serious villains are going to be "tooled up" (armed) from now on." and bingo a few month later we had this .... Shepherd's Bush murders - Wikipedia.
snip The Shepherd's Bush murders, also known as the Massacre of Braybrook Street, involved the murder of three police officers in London by Harry Roberts and two others!
 

Chef

LE
If the death penalty was reintroduced, for an odd crime like, say, 'Impersonating an Ostrich within 200 yards of a Monastery' the UK would then have capital punishment back on the statute books.

This being the case where would the illegal immigrants stand who can't be deported to countries with the death penalty?
 
Why should the sentence for this crime be increased from 1 year to a life sentence just because it had been a copper unlucky enough to be walking past the building when the window frames fell down?

"Amanda Telfer, 43, died when three frames fell on her as she walked past a building site in London in August 2012.
The frames had been left unprotected and unrestrained against a wall in Hanover Square, Mayfair.
Site supervisor Kelvin Adsett, who was convicted of gross negligence manslaughter, was jailed for a year."

Amanda Telfer death: Construction boss jailed (From 2017)
 
l Sharia law is particularly brutal and I don't see the UK being better for its implementation.
I think this is it really - I can get onside with @Werewolf and others for wanting more whole life sentences, even go further as making it a real miserable experience for them (as to be honest should people who commit murders be given the option to be rehabilitated as I’m not sure many of them want to join the rest of us in mainstream society) but I’m just not sure the death penalty is compatible with contemporary British values.
 

Nemesis44UK

LE
Book Reviewer
If the death penalty was reintroduced, for an odd crime like, say, 'Impersonating an Ostrich within 200 yards of a Monastery' the UK would then have capital punishment back on the statute books.

This being the case where would the illegal immigrants stand who can't be deported to countries with the death penalty?
You're a genius!
 
Why should the sentence for this crime be increased from 1 year to a life sentence just because it had been a copper unlucky enough to be walking past the building when the window frames fell down?

"Amanda Telfer, 43, died when three frames fell on her as she walked past a building site in London in August 2012.
The frames had been left unprotected and unrestrained against a wall in Hanover Square, Mayfair.
Site supervisor Kelvin Adsett, who was convicted of gross negligence manslaughter, was jailed for a year."

Amanda Telfer death: Construction boss jailed (From 2017)
Because Harper's Law is only enforced where another crime is being committed.

Leaving plate glass leaning unsecured may be negligent, but probably not criminal, as such.
 

ACAB

LE
They told us it meant Life ..... as a recompense for no longer hanging the murderers.

They lied ...
Ah, but they didn't mean it. They just neglected to tell the rest of us..................

Life nowadays equates to 15 years so murder someone and serve half of that sentence.

*******.
 
Even if it takes a couple of years to exhaust the appeals process, that would still be cheaper by orders of magnitude than keeping them in jail for decades.
Wrong, if you had watched it you'd know they are kept on death row for decades while all the appeals go through.

Or you speed up the process but then you run the risk of killing innocent people wrongly convicted and that doesn't do a lot for support.

Again.

 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
They told us it meant Life ..... as a recompense for no longer hanging the murderers.

They lied ...
I don't know how old you are but 'they' didn't tell most of us anything as most of us were not born. I was 3 when it was suspended and 7 when it was abolished - so I don't count myself as having been told anything.

The people who did the telling in the 1960s are not telling anyone anything anymore. The people responsible for changing things never told anyone anything.
 
I don't know how old you are but 'they' didn't tell most of us anything as most of us were not born. I was 3 when it was suspended and 7 when it was abolished - so I don't count myself as having been told anything.

The people who did the telling in the 1960s are not telling anyone anything anymore. The people responsible for changing things never told anyone anything.

They - the politicians - told us - the people - that life would mean life.

It does not matter if you were 3, 30 or had not even been born at the time.
The effect is the same.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
They - the politicians - told us - the people - that life would mean life.

It does not matter if you were 3, 30 or had not even been born at the time.
The effect is the same.
But they, the politicians who told other people are all dead. They, the politicians who told other people were not lying, it was later politicians who changed things.
 

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