paying for barrack damages

#1
can anyone clear this problem up for me please! i was on squadron parade today ready for knock off an the sqms asked for £5 off all living in soldiers for block damages. i asked what the damages were an were told that its for a fire door that got blown off its hinges (not my corridor) also 3 room keys have been replaced (not my key or any rooms on my corridor)i refused and was told i would have to pay surely this can't be right why should i pay any money for damages i didn't do .would the co pay for scratches to my car even though he didn't do it !!!!!!!!!!
 
#2
Was fire door left open in a public area or had it been reported as insecure?

Surely whoever lost the keys he signed for replaced/paid for them when they were lost?

How many kids does the SQMS have, its nearly Xmas you know!!
 
#3
I speak from personal experiance here. They can't MAKE you pay anything unless they can prove its you. However they can't make you pay sqn subs/regt subs/cpl mess bill/ Christmas functions etc etc but strangely enough they always do.
 
#4
I don't think they can make you pay, but then you probably will...

The clowns at Leccy tried that when I was their - never did pay for it.Although they did it at my last unit - everybody had to pay for cutlery... Which had the knock on effect of people stealing cutlery back that they had paid for!
 
#5
Without being very dull about it, this is totally unlawful for a variety of very good reasons. I reckon you shouldn't beat about the bush and just tell us which Squadron this is... ;)
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#6
JOHN982 said:
can anyone clear this problem up for me please! i was on squadron parade today ready for knock off an the sqms asked for £5 off all living in soldiers for block damages. i asked what the damages were an were told that its for a fire door that got blown off its hinges (not my corridor) also 3 room keys have been replaced (not my key or any rooms on my corridor)i refused and was told i would have to pay surely this can't be right why should i pay any money for damages i didn't do .would the co pay for scratches to my car even though he didn't do it !!!!!!!!!!
Tell him that you're not paying. You are under no legal obligation to do so. Neither are any of the other 'tenants' in your accommodation. If he is alleging the theft of the keys and criminal damage to the door, he should be reporting that to RMP. If someone has lost keys, he should get off his f*ckwit G4 arrse and raise a bill against the occupants of the rooms in question, but he knows that he'll have difficulty in doing that so he takes the old school attitude of billing everyone. If there's no evidence that you are responsible don't even consider signing anything.

You do not need to pay for any of this and if he leans on you, report him. If you pay up, it makes his life easy. Maybe if he'd done his job the loss/damages would have been established earlier and he may have been able to identify those reponsible.

Barrack room damages? F*ck him. If he's so concerned,give it its proper name...criminal damage...and get the fuzz in. He sounds like a right dipshit.
 
#7
Biscuits_AB said:
JOHN982 said:
can anyone clear this problem up for me please! i was on squadron parade today ready for knock off an the sqms asked for £5 off all living in soldiers for block damages. i asked what the damages were an were told that its for a fire door that got blown off its hinges (not my corridor) also 3 room keys have been replaced (not my key or any rooms on my corridor)i refused and was told i would have to pay surely this can't be right why should i pay any money for damages i didn't do .would the co pay for scratches to my car even though he didn't do it !!!!!!!!!!
Tell him that you're not paying. You are under no legal obligation to do so. Neither are any of the other 'tenants' in your accommodation. If he is alleging the theft of the keys and criminal damage to the door, he should be reporting that to RMP. If someone has lost keys, he should get off gis f*ckwit G4 arrse and raise a bill against the occupants of the rooms in question.

You do not need to pay for any of this and if he leans on you, report him. If you pay up, it makes his life easy. Maybe if he'd done his job the loss/damages would have been established earlier and he may have been able to identify those reponsible.

Barrack room damages? F*ck him. If he's so concerned,give it its proper name...criminal damage...and get the fuzz in.
Brilliant.
 
#8
well it's 3 squadron 8 transport regiment .they most think we are complete morons an don't really have anything better to spend our money on. it was actually the 2ic who started all the s%*t firstly. well im not gonna pay regardless .
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#9
Just don't get shirty with them, you don't want trouble where there shouldn't be any in the first place. Don't go round arrsing it about either. When they ask you to sign anything (if they ask for cash I'd get suspicious), simply decline, stating that you won't be signing for what you have no responsibility for. Leave it at that. Don't make it look like you're are trying to get one over on them, as the original matter will suddenly not appear so important and the knives will be out for you.

Above all mate, don't pay. Watch your pay statements as well, as it's not unknown for some stupid arrse to 'sign on your behalf' If there are any deductions from you wage in the future, take it to the SIB. Don't f*ck about.
 
#10
If the fire door was damaged through somebody being malicious then that person or persons can be charged for the said damage otherwise the damage is logged in the SQMS barrack damage book and reported to the Accom Stores at the QM's and fixed, he can't just charge anybody unless he has proof. Ref the keys the SQMS should check everybody in the Accom block has got their key if they haven't then they can be charged as long as he has a signature, if he has lost them then he should be charged for the keys.
 
#11
Lost keys are a nightmare, if its union keys, got to know the guy in town so well we were on first name terms after 4 months. Moral of the story always have a spare hiding in your wallet. As to £5 a head nope should not happen thats why there is a static pioneer on camp to repair certain jobs for a crate of lager.
 
#12
Without digging out Mat Regs (JSP 336 Vol 12) I seem to remember that a charge can be levied against a group of people for damages to accomodation if it is not possible to identify those responsible for the damage. If the individuals can be identified then they are billed.

I had a good look at this whilst at SEME Bordon as the soldiers in my platoon were being billed a stupid amount for damages to accn, even those who had just arrived from Arborfield. The long and short of it was, the QM and Paymaster dug out the regs and showed us that they could do it. We (The Sgts) were not happy at all, but we had to collect the money from the soldiers. Maybe the regs have changed now (this was 1999/2000) - I hope so.
 
#13
Nige said:
Without digging out Mat Regs (JSP 336 Vol 12) I seem to remember that a charge can be levied against a group of people for damages to accomodation if it is not possible to identify those responsible for the damage. If the individuals can be identified then they are billed...
Thanks Nige. Doesnt sound as if the requirements for imposing a collective deduction have been met in this case:

Mat Regs (JSP 336 Vol 12) para 2411:

COLLECTIVE DEDUCTIONS

2411. In assessing barrack damages to buildings or parts of buildings or to DAS used for communal domestic living arrangements, the imposition of a collective deduction is subject to the following conditions, all of which must be fulfilled before any collective charges can be made:

a. The damage under investigation must be in respect of premises (or the contents of such premises) where personnel are accommodated; i.e. where they are either in barracks, under canvas, lodged in huts, or in requisitioned buildings. Personnel are not considered to be accommodated simply because they are employed in such premises.

b. Regular inspections are to be made not less than once in every 4 weeks (once in every 2 weeks for schools and establishments with rapidly changing personnel). Periodic and handover/takeover inspections should be carried out in collaboration with the Property Manager.

c. The findings of an Inquiry are that the damages or losses cannot be attributed to named individuals and are due to unfair wear and tear.

d. The damage or loss occurred during the time the premises were occupied by the unit or units, or part of the unit, against which any levy of barrack damage is proposed.

e. The damage or loss to accommodation occupied jointly by military and civilian personnel, was caused solely by military personnel.

f. Deductions cannot be made from the pay of persons who were not in the unit or part of the unit at the time that the unit or part of it was in occupation of the premises (see Para 2413b).
 
#14
Is this what the forces are turning into.....a bunch of whingeing civilians in uniform?? Everyone banging on about their rights? Quote this Reg! Quote that! Amazing really, when this site is filled on a daily basis with criticism of civvies and their weird ways.

You, and the posters supporting you sound like a bunch of barrack room lawyers, or worse still a coven of whingeing civvies.

The rules are simple: Discipline yourselves or someone will discipline you!

Pay up or bugger off if you don't like it. That's my advice.
 
#15
shagnasty said:
Is this what the forces are turning into.....a bunch of whingeing civilians in uniform?? Everyone banging on about their rights? Quote this Reg! Quote that! Amazing really, when this site is filled on a daily basis with criticism of civvies and their weird ways.

You, and the posters supporting you sound like a bunch of barrack room lawyers, or worse still a coven of whingeing civvies.

The rules are simple: Discipline yourselves or someone will discipline you!

Pay up or bugger off if you don't like it. That's my advice.
Come off it mate. When some one is trying to do one over on you then complain about it! He's not being a whingeing civy, his sticking up for himslef. Just because you're a soldier doesn't mean you've got to bend over and take when the 2IC or QM starts getting stupid ideas.

T C
 
#16
The_Cheat said:
shagnasty said:
Is this what the forces are turning into.....a bunch of whingeing civilians in uniform?? Everyone banging on about their rights? Quote this Reg! Quote that! Amazing really, when this site is filled on a daily basis with criticism of civvies and their weird ways.

You, and the posters supporting you sound like a bunch of barrack room lawyers, or worse still a coven of whingeing civvies.

The rules are simple: Discipline yourselves or someone will discipline you!

Pay up or bugger off if you don't like it. That's my advice.
Come off it mate. When some one is trying to do one over on you then complain about it! He's not being a whingeing civy, his sticking up for himslef. Just because you're a soldier doesn't mean you've got to bend over and take when the 2IC or QM starts getting stupid ideas.

T C
No my friend, nobody is doing anybody and nobody is being stupid. Please refer to Hackles' earlier post which explains in detail how and why barrack damages are permissable.

The flavour of this whinge from the poster is typical of society today. "Me! Guv! No. It's not me to blame. I dunno, maybe it was them over there. It's not my fault.....etc. etc.."

Sad really, when you consider the original poster hasn't the gumption to admit.....that this miserable request for a fiver might just be the excuse that they are looking for to exit......stage left.
 
#18
shagnasty said:
The_Cheat said:
shagnasty said:
Is this what the forces are turning into.....a bunch of whingeing civilians in uniform?? Everyone banging on about their rights? Quote this Reg! Quote that! Amazing really, when this site is filled on a daily basis with criticism of civvies and their weird ways.

You, and the posters supporting you sound like a bunch of barrack room lawyers, or worse still a coven of whingeing civvies.

The rules are simple: Discipline yourselves or someone will discipline you!

Pay up or bugger off if you don't like it. That's my advice.
Come off it mate. When some one is trying to do one over on you then complain about it! He's not being a whingeing civy, his sticking up for himslef. Just because you're a soldier doesn't mean you've got to bend over and take when the 2IC or QM starts getting stupid ideas.

T C
No my friend, nobody is doing anybody and nobody is being stupid. Please refer to Hackles' earlier post which explains in detail how and why barrack damages are permissable.

The flavour of this whinge from the poster is typical of society today. "Me! Guv! No. It's not me to blame. I dunno, maybe it was them over there. It's not my fault.....etc. etc.."

Sad really, when you consider the original poster hasn't the gumption to admit.....that this miserable request for a fiver might just be the excuse that they are looking for to exit......stage left.
Ok so the next time a squaddie does something stupid down town we will all take the blame for that individual shall we. The next time a pads prat vandalises something and they doesn't get caught the bill should be split between the whole patch. If some chavs in your area smashs up a car but don't get caught you don't mind coughing up the bill with your neighbours. Its got fuck all to do with society today if you don't commit the crime why should you pay for it. The army are constantly trying to screw their soldiers over and it alway only a couple of quid/a fiver/tenner etc etc.
Who lost the keys? Either bill them or the SQMS for not doing his job properly.
The rules are simple: Discipline yourselves or someone will discipline you!
Yes if only it was that simple give some tosser a dig nowdays and you find yourself in more shit than him.
 
#19
amazing__lobster said:
John - change your profile name mate - your probably very easily identified...
Lobbie, stop sucking your tits and stop frightening the children prior to Crimbo....easily identified??? Don't put silly ideas in their heads!
 
#20
if someone damaged your block and your getting billed for it find out who did it.

its not hard to go round the blokes and find out who got smashed n kicked the fire door in?

as for the keys i disagree with that

but if you dont like it hand your bedding in
 

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