Paying a 3% increase in NHS salaries... viable?

"Paying a 3% increase in NHS salaries... viable?"

They Tik Tok in work time so what is the raise for?

As opposed to going to The Alps downhill skiing for weeks at taxpayers expense, or playing sport on a Wednesday afternoon and going in The Mess on a Friday afternoon.
 
Precisely what is of concern to my private employer in the distant future, hence them looking to utilise more agency/ sessional workers to offset the pension contribution burden and reduce a portion of the wage bill, in particular absence/ sickness.

the problem you have in Scotland is slightly different to England. These are pre Covid figures for one of the VERY LARGE NHS Boards in Scotland on absence:

23% absence rates in facilities, theatre and geriatrics.

In Scotland, you can book a weekend's overtime at 1728hrs on Friday and phone in sick at 1729hrs (1 minute later). You get paid your overtime for the weekend and what happens is they then do contract work in a neighbouring Trust at the weekend, so get paid twice (sickness and working hours for the agency). Contractually, they are allowed to do this as UNISON negotiated the national contracts. You cant get sacked for fraud!

Again pre-Covid.

Annual absence bill for Doctors is £200,000 per annum. Annual absence bill for Nurses is £200,000 per annum.

The agency bill for Scotland is eye watering.
 
When a police officer for the first 2/3 years is earning less than a waiter with tips in The SE, it’s only a matter of time before people start weighing up the night shifts, violence, work overload and people start leaving.

I don't know why anyone would want to join the police, every other day there's a story in the news like yesterday where two officers got slashed in some dump in England doing a stop and search ( think?). Sod that.
 
the problem you have in Scotland is slightly different to England. These are pre Covid figures for one of the VERY LARGE NHS Boards in Scotland on absence:

23% absence rates in facilities, theatre and geriatrics.

In Scotland, you can book a weekend's overtime at 1728hrs on Friday and phone in sick at 1729hrs (1 minute later). You get paid your overtime for the weekend and what happens is they then do contract work in a neighbouring Trust at the weekend, so get paid twice (sickness and working hours for the agency). Contractually, they are allowed to do this as UNISON negotiated the national contracts. You cant get sacked for fraud!

Again pre-Covid.

Annual absence bill for Doctors is £200,000 per annum. Annual absence bill for Nurses is £200,000 per annum.

The agency bill for Scotland is eye watering.
Not sure where that 23% figure has come from but I've never known a department to have such a high incidence of absence. Mine hovers around 4-5%. Are you including rest days and annual leave in that 23%?

ETA: Also not sure about where your information on calling in sick then working for an agency comes from. Our policy is that if a member of staff is found to be working for another organisation/self employed while claiming to be sick it's classed as fraud and dealt with through the disciplinary process. I know of at least two members of staff in my health board who have lost their jobs as a result of this. They also lost their professional registration.
 
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Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
I love how the unions are soo singlemindedly blinkered. 3%? Fork off, we deserve 12% completely ignoring the fact every other public sector employee, many of whom also supported the response to COVID are on a pay freeze, again.
 
I would have been ecstatic with a 3% pay rise this year. We haven’t had 3% in 20 years.

Sadly, the government know that we can’t strike and therefore can do nothing, so have been given 0%.

When a police officer for the first 2/3 years is earning less than a waiter with tips in The SE, it’s only a matter of time before people start weighing up the night shifts, violence, work overload and people start leaving.
Sensible people might have foreseen the likelihood of night shifts, violence etc, and chosen other jobs?
 

homeworker

War Hero
Mrs is a senior nurse on 48K a year. However, it's salary she gets no overtime and during Covid has been doing 14 hours a day 6 days a week at the peak.
I'm a band 2, yet as a courier driver I can go into multiple locations that are Covid Red delivering stuff.

The NHS is going to haemorrhage staff massively in a very short time, people WILL leave the organisation because they know they are not respected or valued.
I used to be a courier for the ambulance service, the waste in the NHS is epic. More than once I have driven a 100 mile round trip to deliver 1 x 28 pack of paracetamol (these can be purchased for 16p at your local garage) and this sort of thing is not unusual. Especially when bog standard IT help desk staff are on the same pay scale as paramedics.
 

Mbongwe

Old-Salt
They could do a job swap with those gagging for a contract from abroad, that'll learn 'em what crappy T&Cs really are.
That would just be a race to the bottom which would lead to people from abroad undercutting the native British workforce. Just because some people in other countries put up with terrible pay and conditions doesn't mean that people in Britain should have to follow suit.
 
Sensible people might have foreseen the likelihood of night shifts, violence etc, and chosen other jobs?

Or realised that the job had to be done for the nations good and expected a reasonable rate of pay for doing those things.
 
That would just be a race to the bottom which would lead to people from abroad undercutting the native British workforce. Just because some people in other countries put up with terrible pay and conditions doesn't mean that people in Britain should have to follow suit.

Nonsense. Look how well it turned out for the HGV industry :smile:
 
Or realised that the job had to be done for the nations good and expected a reasonable rate of pay for doing those things.

Genuine query, is that idealism really still a thing in today's society from your observation of what motivates new officers? It wasn't when I enlisted 16 years ago ('defend the nation' or whatever) though I will accept soldiers and police officers aren't necessarily the same in terms of mindset.
 
Did they not see the pay scale before joining?

I am sure they did, and thought that they would give it a go. When the reality of shifts, confrontation, massive paperwork, constant criticism and non existent pay rise coupled with constant criticism hits home, they make a decision on whether to stay.

People generally understand the concept of shifts, violence, paperwork etc, but like seeing your friend get blown up by an IED in Afghan, it doesn’t become real until you live it.

If you even out all the pay rises for police over the last 11 years, it amounts to 1% per year. Effectively a pay cut when coupled with pension contribution increases etc.

We will eventually end up with a police force like the military, most people leaving after a few years with a few staying on and trouble recruiting the right standard of people.

If that’s what the country want, fair enough.
 
Genuine query, is that idealism really still a thing in today's society from your observation of what motivates new officers? It wasn't when I enlisted 16 years ago ('defend the nation' or whatever) though I will accept soldiers and police officers aren't necessarily the same in terms of mindset.

Most people I know, join to do the best they can for the community and to nick bad people. When the reality hits home, the cynicism and self protection gradually sets in.
 
I am sure they did, and thought that they would give it a go. When the reality of shifts, confrontation, massive paperwork, constant criticism and non existent pay rise coupled with constant criticism hits home, they make a decision on whether to stay.

People generally understand the concept of shifts, violence, paperwork etc, but like seeing your friend get blown up by an IED in Afghan, it doesn’t become real until you live it.

If you even out all the pay rises for police over the last 11 years, it amounts to 1% per year. Effectively a pay cut when coupled with pension contribution increases etc.

We will eventually end up with a police force like the military, most people leaving after a few years with a few staying on and trouble recruiting the right standard of people.

If that’s what the country want, fair enough.
It’s the Police Force society deserves in some aspects, so you are telling me that those that join havent done due diligence in speaking to serving officers, thought it was going to be all thief taking and medals?
If it’s as bad as you say why is there a waiting list for those wishing to do it for free? All the same issues with out the as you suggest mediocre money?
 
Not sure where that 23% figure has come from but I've never known a department to have such a high incidence of absence. Mine hovers around 4-5%. Are you including rest days and annual leave in that 23%?

ETA: Also not sure about where your information on calling in sick then working for an agency comes from. Our policy is that if a member of staff is found to be working for another organisation/self employed while claiming to be sick it's classed as fraud and dealt with through the disciplinary process. I know of at least two members of staff in my health board who have lost their jobs as a result of this. They also lost their professional registration.

the source is straight from the horses mouth of some very senior people.
 
the source is straight from the horses mouth of some very senior people.
I think you need some more context to the figures to be honest, the definition of absence makes all the difference. As for the working while sick, I can only speak for my directorate where I can categorially say that anyone found doing that has been taken through a disciplinary process. ETA: Any examples of this "being allowed" is a failure of management to implement policy, my HB's policy on this is very clear in that it is considered fraud.
 
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I think you need some more context to the figures to be honest, the definition of absence makes all the difference. As for the working while sick, I can only speak for my directorate where I can categorially say that anyone found doing that has been taken through a disciplinary process. ETA: Any examples of this "being allowed" is a failure of management to implement policy, my HB's policy on this is very clear in that it is considered fraud.

Ive said too much as it is, so we’ll just have to put this down as ‘bloke shouting on internet who won’t/can’t reveal the source’ and move on.

facilities costs on agency are very high as they are dealing with contaminated and regulated disposals. That’s a bit more content on one of the points I made.

the salary and pension numbers O quoted earlier so stack up. If someone digs deep enough they should find the data.

numbers are scary
 
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