Paying a 3% increase in NHS salaries... viable?

The majority of them on here read your post and straight away come to the conclusion that £48K is an average salary for nurses. You and I know that’s far from the truth.

Most nurses are on substantially less money. To be on £48K, you will be in a senior management role with responsibility for for the professional direction of nursing and other caring staff working in in your area of responsibility.

You will also have professional responsibility for those staff carrying out their work to a sarisfactory standard that meets the stringent requirements for providing nursing care to patients.

That professional responsibility will also place patients in your managerial area under your direct supervision as well. Their day to day treatment and welfare are under your direct supervision. If a mistake is made and someone dies, you could be held responsible or partially responsible and the repercussions on your career could be enormous and even terminal job wise.

That £48K job could suddenly transform into minimal wage filling shelves in a supermarket never mind the weight on your mind of a tragedy on your watch that should have been avoided!

How many nursing jobs are there on £48K. Like any profession, it’s about the level of responsibility and that kind of level will see you most likely in charge of a ward with a group of nurses and other staff including HCA’s and cleaners etc working under your direct control proving medical care to the patients in your ward.

All those personnel will be on substantially less money than the £48K that you earn for running the place.

I’ll add a quick word about agency nursing. There is a shortage of nurses at the moment and the agency rates are very good. In West London, the rates start at around £18 per hour and I’ve heard of £20, £22 and even £24 being offered. A couple of twelve shifts on that is pretty good.

Bear in mind that the higher rates are probably for night shifts and of course, there are no other benefits. You also have to travel to wherever the work is and fit yourself in with the regimes being operated there. Despite those things, as the nurse, you still have the legal responsibility for ensuring the proper medication in the right amount is given to patients in your care at the proper time.

Premium rates for agency nursing yes. But it isn’t always an easy option. Plus if the numbers of nurses going the agency route went up sufficiently, the rates would probably drop.

So all those on here wetting their pants about nurses on £48K really need to change their nappy’s and calm down. Because in the vast majority of instances, it ain’t so!
She's been a Nurse for nearly 35 years and has climbed the ranks through hard work and commitment. And yes, she is the Head of Department in a managerial nursing role with more than a few staff under her, she writes policy and procedure stuff for the entire health board.. But, she gets out onto the coalface as often as she can as she likes to be seen by the younger staff, and wants them to know that their boss is approachable and will take care of any issues they have.

48k...yes after 35 years hard graft.
 

Mr_Relaxed

War Hero
Nope, not in nursing, they tend to hang around a bit, at least according to SWMBO. Or they used to.
According to mine, with all her nursing mates fast approaching or past the magical date, get out at 55, take the pension and then go on to the Bank or Agency in a different Trust. Pick the hours you want, no management of staff (which according to one of her mates is the biggest plus, just got to hold your tongue sometimes) and although you might have 30 years of nursing under your belt, as no one knows you (and therefore don't trust you), the easier patients to deal with.
 
According to mine, with all her nursing mates fast approaching or past the magical date, get out at 55, take the pension and then go on to the Bank or Agency in a different Trust. Pick the hours you want, no management of staff (which according to one of her mates is the biggest plus, just got to hold your tongue sometimes) and although you might have 30 years of nursing under your belt, as no one knows you (and therefore don't trust you), the easier patients to deal with.
This is a distinct option.
She can work less hours on the bank but earn more money. With her pension as well, I'll be able to go part time.
 
Balls to the NHS! The Services stepped up to help them out, where’s their pay rise? Border Force officers have been sneezed on, coughed at, spat on and generally treated like shyte throughout, they were the first contact when the virus hit the UK, where’s their pay rise?

I have been thinking along similar lines.

When you join the armed services you have to expect that the perks(what there are) will be paid for on operations, where you will be expected to do the job you have been paid to do and risk your life when required.

Now, for the first time in a hundred years human society has really enountered a pandemic with the potential to kill millions, and the health services have found that they, and not the military, are the front line. They chose to work in the NHS and no doubt have enjoyed all the perks of working for the NHS (discounts etc) - now they have to face up to their responsibility to do what they are paid to do.

They have to get on with the job - there is no-one else to do it, and to be fair, I think they have done a good job under extremely unusual and trying circumstances.

The human cost, in terms of stress etc, has yet to be fully understood but will probably (in the case of intensive care staff) be similar to or even greater than, PTSD rates in the military after recent conflicts.

I don't think simply throwing money at NHS staff in the form of a pay rise is the answer. It might be better spending the money on support for those who will require long term post-pandemic help to deal with their experiences and to retain them in the NHS to benefit from their experience.

It should also be pointed out to potential new NHS staff that this may happen again and that "you will be the front line" should be seen as a challenge to be accepted and dealt with as a matter of professional pride, in much the same way the army has approached the wars in Afghan and Iraq.
 

Slime

LE
She's been a Nurse for nearly 35 years and has climbed the ranks through hard work and commitment. And yes, she is the Head of Department in a managerial nursing role with more than a few staff under her, she writes policy and procedure stuff for the entire health board.. But, she gets out onto the coalface as often as she can as she likes to be seen by the younger staff, and wants them to know that their boss is approachable and will take care of any issues they have.

48k...yes after 35 years hard graft.

To solely concentrate on nurses pay, or nurses being unable to feed their families is to jump on the media bandwagon imho.

A nurse on a low salary or nurse at the top of their game will be well below a consultant, and well above a cleaner or porter etc.

All were involved here, and yet the Labour party, nurses union (a left wing union) and media are bleating on about nurses needing the money. They are deafeningly silent about the cleaners and porters who may be on half what a nurse earns.

Perhaps we are supposed to believe that the poorly paid cleaners, at the bottom of the hospital food chain, and with no voice to complain about lack of PPE are doing just fine :)

As an aside. Before Covid my other half and I were saving around £1200 per year by using her blue light card, mostly for meals out or white goods purchases etc.
Since lockdown we’ve used it more online and for grocery shopping and have saved £1500 in the last year.
The early use with priority shopping hours was also very helpful.
 

RTU'd

War Hero
What about civil servants/emergency workers/council workers?
Even those on universal credit are getting an extra £20 weekly with all the fringe benefits?
Perhaps time we should all became a bunch of dole seeking unemployed dirty bash plod protestors.
 
What gets me though is that those shouting the loudest about the pay rise are generally the laziest, most bone idle, workshy bastards in the whole of the NHS.

Yes a pay rise would be nice, it would be nice for the girls working in the supermarket putting up with abusive Chavs day in, day out as well. Personally I'm revising my view on this whole pay rise thing, for junior nurses and staff under say 28k a year then yes, why not, but for Staff nurses on 30k plus and those above that then No, everyone is being lumped in together when there are massively different pay scales between a porter and a staff nurse. Both jobs are important in the grand scheme of things.
 

Slime

LE
What about civil servants/emergency workers/council workers?
Even those on universal credit are getting an extra £20 weekly with all the fringe benefits?
Perhaps time we should all became a bunch of dole seeking unemployed dirty bash plod protestors.

As far as I have seen, only those claiming universal credit as a result of covid are getting an extra £20. Happy to be shown otherwise :)
Long term sick or disabled people have got zero extra.
 
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This is the Nuffield Trust data that shows a decline in real salaries. I've not gone through the data source to question its veracity, but it looks like a headline grabber.

The figures don't take into account the pension contributions or holiday entitlements or other perks, but it seems the average nurse is worse off than their private sector worker - quite what that is I cannot answer.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
As far as I have seen, only those claiming universal credit as a result of covid are getting an extra £20. Happy to be shown otherwise :)
Long term sick or disabled people have got zero extra.
Tis correct, wife gets PIP, not a penny extra being thrown at her.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
This is a distinct option.
She can work less hours on the bank but earn more money. With her pension as well, I'll be able to go part time.
Bank tends to be run by a hospital and pays very low rates. I think you perhaps mean agency which of course pays more but you’re not paying into the nhs pension scheme. Many agency staff can also be self employed too.
 

joey88

Old-Salt
I have been thinking along similar lines.

When you join the armed services you have to expect that the perks(what there are) will be paid for on operations, where you will be expected to do the job you have been paid to do and risk your life when required.

Now, for the first time in a hundred years human society has really enountered a pandemic with the potential to kill millions, and the health services have found that they, and not the military, are the front line. They chose to work in the NHS and no doubt have enjoyed all the perks of working for the NHS (discounts etc) - now they have to face up to their responsibility to do what they are paid to do.

They have to get on with the job - there is no-one else to do it, and to be fair, I think they have done a good job under extremely unusual and trying circumstances.

The human cost, in terms of stress etc, has yet to be fully understood but will probably (in the case of intensive care staff) be similar to or even greater than, PTSD rates in the military after recent conflicts.

I don't think simply throwing money at NHS staff in the form of a pay rise is the answer. It might be better spending the money on support for those who will require long term post-pandemic help to deal with their experiences and to retain them in the NHS to benefit from their experience.

It should also be pointed out to potential new NHS staff that this may happen again and that "you will be the front line" should be seen as a challenge to be accepted and dealt with as a matter of professional pride, in much the same way the army has approached the wars in Afghan and Iraq.
I dont support the hero worship mentality, be it the forces, NHS, police, fireservice etc just for doing what you are paid for and volunteered to do. However I do agree with outstanding individual service being recognised.
The NHS are there to deal with ill people, most of the NHS staff I work with accept it and see Covid as just another illness and get on with it, their motivation is caring for the individual.
On the other hand I have seen some staff run a mile when this all started using stress as a route to get an easier life while getting a decent wage for doing very little. (Although happy to take the freebies and boasting on social media about it).
I agree with Rodney2q, when this is all over look after the staff who have possibly suffered while working hard and making sure the expertise gained is retained as it will be required for the future.
 
The figures don't take into account the pension contributions or holiday entitlements or other perks
That may well be because in the private sector pension contributions/perks etc are extremely variable. For example, I get 15% of my base salary as a pension contribution by my employer; others get more, or less, than that - ditto all the other perks.

Therefore base salaries is the only 'known' that they can go on?
 

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