PAYD

How much would you be prepared to pay for daily meals that ensure you are fit and health to undertak

  • Less than £5

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Between £5 - £10

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More than £10

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
Most will accept that the implementation of PAYD doesn't deliver to the expectation of the vast majority of our soldiers (and Officers).

If you were to start from scratch, what would you have?

Would you have a Core Meal, would you have breakfast, when and where would you want to eat and how much would you be prepared to pay?

I'm after as far ranging views as possible and not just the 'It's shit scrap it.'

We have a duty of care to feed those individuals who are constrained by the demands of the service. Lets try to get it right and give them what they want.
 
#2
And you are who exactly?
 
#4
Where I'm posted, there's a lot of civilians who eat in the JR mess at lunch time. The food for this meal is of the highest standard, well cooked, laid out and very tasty.

However, when the civilians go home at night, and it's just the military the food undergoes a horrendous metamorphosis into standard military slop. Curry every other night, chips the next. Complaints have been lodged, but since PAYD is being run a civilian company, they're rarely given a second glance.

In answer to your question, I believe £5-10 per day is quite reasonable.
 
#5
Funny old thing, back in the day when blokes paid food charges, they could get 3 square meals a day for about £3.50...

The Master Chef, who wasn't the Master Chef by accident - could work wonders with this in a Battalion Cookhouse, ensuring that there was always plenty, it was a balanced diet - and there was no such thing as a 'Free Feeder'. He or she would know that there wouldn't be many for scoff on a Friday night - and that the cookhouse would always be full at the end of the month, especially before pay day.

PAYD is a bit like socialism - a great idea but just doesn't quite work...

Be careful what you wish for.

Adjt
 
#6
egg_custard said:
Someone charged with looking after the welfare of our soldiers and their families!
My point Mr. Touchy is whether you are in a position to make any changes.

And do you honestly think a privately owned civilian company with a monopoly on the Armed Forces would change anything by throwing more money at them? No they would still deal out the same standard of cuisine they are currently and keep the extra change. Simples.
 
#7
egg_custard said:
We have a duty of care to feed those individuals who are constrained by the demands of the service. Lets try to get it right and give them what they want.
Maybe you want to try teaching fucktards how to look after themselves, How do civvies managed?
PAYD is pretty wank on numerous levels, but price isnt really an issue for food, due to that the army chefs are not paid for by the PAYD companies and I'm guessing rent isnt much of an issue either so the food is always going to be cheaper than civvie street.
If you had to make one improvement allow soldiers to use their ID cards to authorise payment of food to come out of the next months wage. That would end all hungry soldier chits/admin cases not eating, the company (who obviously want to make money) will always have customers right up to the end of the month, people don't have to with draw a tenner from the cash machine that charges them £2.50 for the privilege, soldiers won't have to make a minimum £5 spend if they want to use their cash card.
There are a few more things that could be done but get that right and alot of people will be happy.
 
#8
As has been pointed out, PAYD is excellent for civvies working in camp. They get a good meal for a very reasonable price. At the times they don't join the queue (breakfast and evening meals) the food and the service is very sub-standard. Paying extra for the food won't change anything but the profits of a civvy firm with a monopoly.
 
#9
PAYD does work. But only in one place i have found so far. RMB chiv the food is awesome. But there are some really really bad places SEME for instance.
I think it depends if the company has any intrest in the lads or not.
 
#10
I've seen several replies already that all run along the lines of 'It's a civvy company ripping off the MoD, what can you do?'. Well, I'll tell you what you can do,and what the situation is.
I left almost 10 years to the day, and before PAYD was introduced, and have since set up and run my own very sucessful company and do a lot of work with contracts. If a company was to sign an agreement with me to provide 3 meals day for my staff and they produced one good meal and 2 below par ones I would then begin the process of working out (via our company contact) why a standard of service has not been maintained over the 3 meals and ask them to correct it. You of course get all correspondence and items in writing and agreed by both parties. If this still does not deliver results then you either go higher up the chain or legal. Many companies know the Army\MoD are rubbish with contracts, not only in negotiaton, but in ensuring that they are maintained that they take advantage of this.
YOU are the customer. YOU are paying for a sub-standard service. YOU are accepting this. My advice is that you start to make a noise. You find out who locally is responsable for the contarct and you complain to them. The problem you have in the army (especially at the lower levels) is that you shouldn't complain, you shouldn't make a fuss. Well, you should. You are being (in many cases) shafted by companied who know that they are getting away with murder. Civvy workplace canteens certainly wouldn't stand for it.
 
#12
stacker1 said:
If you had to make one improvement allow soldiers to use their ID cards to authorise payment of food to come out of the next months wage. That would end all hungry soldier chits/admin cases not eating.
Can you spot the obvious flaw in your logic, Stacker?
 
#13
The simple way is to complain, complain and complain some more, whingeing on here or to your mates won’t change anything. I am (now) a civvy instructor at DST Leconfield and whilst working late one day I experienced a particularly bad meal, so bad in fact that when I showed the photo on my mobile to the chief chip he asked what the coating on the chicken was, I explained it was carbon.
He asked me if I had complained at the point of sale, I said no I hadn’t. He asked me if I’d completed one of his complaint forms in the cookhouse, once again I hadn’t. He then told me that I need to complain through the proper channels because every contractor has a minimum satisfaction level and if they don’t meet these levels penalty clauses are enacted in the contract and the contractor loses money. He told me that the contractor at Leconfield was less that 1% above this margin.
I now ensure that every time a get a crap meal, I complain. I also ensure that every course I take at Leconfield know of this fact and encourage them to complain. If enough people at your unit complain and get the satisfaction level down, it will hit the contractor where it hurts. Most sites lose money on the cookhouse side and make it up in the shops, cafes and bars
 
#14
Funny old thing, back in the day when blokes paid food charges, they could get 3 square meals a day for about £3.50...

The Master Chef, who wasn't the Master Chef by accident - could work wonders with this in a Battalion Cookhouse, ensuring that there was always plenty, it was a balanced diet - and there was no such thing as a 'Free Feeder'. He or she would know that there wouldn't be many for scoff on a Friday night - and that the cookhouse would always be full at the end of the month, especially before pay day.
Only problem with those days ADJ, was that they had the ration money from those that didn't eat to subsidise those who did!
 
#16
If you had to make one improvement allow soldiers to use their ID cards to authorise payment of food to come out of the next months wage. That would end all hungry soldier chits/admin cases not eating, the company (who obviously want to make money) will always have customers right up to the end of the month, people don't have to with draw a tenner from the cash machine that charges them £2.50 for the privilege, soldiers won't have to make a minimum £5 spend if they want to use their cash card.
The use of ID Cards was explored during the PAYD trials STACKER1 but rejected by security - bit of a non-starter I suppose now we have JPA?
 
#17
Speedy said:
I seen several replys already that all run along the lines of #t's a civvy company ripping off the MoD, what can you do'. Well, I'll tell you what you can do,and what the situation is.
I left almost 10 years to the day, and before PAYD was introduced, and have since set up and run my own very sucessful company and do a lot of work with contracts. If a company was to sign an agreement with me to provide 3 meals day for my staff and they produced one good meal and 2 below par ones I would then begin the process of working out (via our company contact) why a standard of service has not been maintained over the 3 meals and ask them to correct it. You of course get all correspondence and items in writing and agreed by both parties. If this still does not deliver results then you either go higher up the chain or legal. Many companies know the Army\MoD are rubbish with contracts, not only in negotiaton, but in ensuring that they are maintained that they take advantage of this.
YOU are the customer. YOU are paying for a sub-standard service. YOU are accepting this. My advice is that you start to make a noise. You find out who locally is responsable for the contarct and you complain to them. The problem you have in the army (especially at the lower levels) is that you shouldn't complain, you shouldn't make a fuss. Well, you should. You are being (in many cases) shafted by companied who know that they are getting away with murder. Civvy workplace canteens certainly wouldn't stand for it.
Noted Speedy - or even have the CofC working with the contractor to make it successful?
 
#18
raggyavn said:
The simple way is to complain, complain and complain some more, whingeing on here or to your mates won’t change anything. I am (now) a civvy instructor at DST Leconfield and whilst working late one day I experienced a particularly bad meal, so bad in fact that when I showed the photo on my mobile to the chief chip he asked what the coating on the chicken was, I explained it was carbon.
He asked me if I had complained at the point of sale, I said no I hadn’t. He asked me if I’d completed one of his complaint forms in the cookhouse, once again I hadn’t. He then told me that I need to complain through the proper channels because every contractor has a minimum satisfaction level and if they don’t meet these levels penalty clauses are enacted in the contract and the contractor loses money. He told me that the contractor at Leconfield was less that 1% above this margin.
I now ensure that every time a get a crap meal, I complain. I also ensure that every course I take at Leconfield know of this fact and encourage them to complain. If enough people at your unit complain and get the satisfaction level down, it will hit the contractor where it hurts. Most sites lose money on the cookhouse side and make it up in the shops, cafes and bars
It's a British thing raggyavn, we just can't be bothered to complain enough when service levels fall below expectstion.
 
#19
So (just asking of course) let me see if I have got this right

British soldiers had a system that basically took a ‘fair’ amount of money out of their daily wage for 3 meals a day.

A minority complained that it was all ‘so unfair’ so the complaints were exploited to come up with a so-called fairer ‘NIL COST’ solution

The solution, however reasonable, was totally unachievable under the costs that were previously charged. ‘Bloody minded’ people (self interested individuals) abused the dissenters and insisted that PAYD could and would work under all the previous parameters

Those ‘bloody minded’ people then realised that PAYD had no chance of succeeding under original criteria, however insisted that all was good

Those that are completely blinkered to the PAYD system are now asking what would be a fair price to pay for a meal. The real answer is the same as before the experiment.

We all pay for each other, we should realise that some days we wont eat as much but other days we will live like kings.

It is funny how the question is being asked now when the ‘old guard’ who remember the ‘good old days’ are diminishing and those who only know PAYD are in the majority.

My answer would be: I am prepared to forego a fair amount of money in salary as long as you are prepared to clothe, accommodate, and feed me, on the provision that I am prepared to do whatever you ask me, whenever, wherever, to the best of my ability. At any time, anywhere you wish.

Is that not a small price to pay for food, clothes and accommodation

Befor you become an apologist and ask how much the new generation (the long term plan) are willing to pay for their daily meals, please remember the original concept of the 3 CORE MEALS A DAY was your food will not cost you more and will not compromise the quality
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
#20
When PAYD was first mooted about in the mid 90's, the idea was that those who didn't want to pay for food that they wouldn't be there for, would get their wish. Originally, it was suppsed to be pay for your meals the folowing month, ie eat in Jan, pay in Feb, but the contractors wanted the money there and then. Now I fail to see how theses contractors can work that kind of system, to literally PAYD when most of them run a 90 day invoicing system with their suppliers, ie goods in Jan, pay in April, seems a bit unfair especially when they aren't living upto the word of the contract and providing 3 QUALITY meals per day for the toms. As has been said earlier in the thread, if the quality is crap, complain there and then, go see the Orderly Officer if he's there, the MasterChef if he isn't, get the complaints sorted and then the contractors will be seen to be in failing in their contracted obligation.
 
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