PAYD vs The Good Old Days

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by jimnicebutdim, Apr 10, 2008.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. The old method of catering

    0 vote(s)
  2. Save-as-you-starve (PAYD)

    0 vote(s)
  3. Don't care. I'm married/Live-out/Civvy

    0 vote(s)
  1. At a PAYD breifing yesterday we were informed by the contracters (Aramark) that they have to pay VAT on the food they purchase, where as in the old days HMF didn't pay the VAT.

    Aramark are using this as an excuse for providing sub-standard food and sub-standard service. This really grips my sh1t.

    I firmly believe that PAYD (and JPA as well) have the possibility of being the most damaging thing to hit all personnel outside of ops in the history of ever.

    I know the justification given is that 'this is what we asked for', but I for one don't remember ever asking for a civilian company to rip us off and fcuk us around when all we want is a decent sized portion of scran.

    My outrage-o-meter is off the chart :x

    So, my question, ladies and gents, is:
    Is this talk about VAT real, or is this a convinient excuse?
    If the VAT tale is true, does anyone else feel p1ssed off that the gobmint is taxing our food like this?
    Does ANYONE within HM Forces think PAYD is a good idea and prefer what we have now to what we had previous?
  2. Can't make a comment about PAYD but can vouch for the old system. Hardly ever complained in 22 years of the ACC food and at the end of the day they were all part of the same team and could comprehend the language (be it verbal or a smack in the MT).
    Would not like to be part of HM Forces now I am sad to say. They definately were the good old days (1980 - 2002).
  3. Hmm, sounds complete bollocks to me- VAT is supposed to be luxary items only. I was in Makro the other day and most food is VAT free- looking at the reciept bacon, pizza, fruit, veg and dairy products were all VAT code 0- ie no VAT on them.
  4. I believe that under the old system MOD bought food which is zero rated for VAT as tothepub has said.
    Aramark are caterers and will have to included VAT within the price of the meals that they sell.

    You could argue that Aramark don’t add any value to their raw ingredients and should on those grounds be exempt Value Added Tax.
  5. :D I think that about sums it all up...
  6. [/quote]Aramark - that's great they did the prisoners canteen when I worked in the prison service - they are excellent at cocking things up and over-charging. Good luck!
  7. The food is cheap but just wait till they start increasing the prices.... Useless complaining about the food, as they are civies and dont care!

    Also no more tea and toast inn the mess!
  8. Well they are a naughty, duplicitous lot then. They are no doubt reclaiming VAT on the things they buy (offset to tax) are they not? So why are they passing that cost on, except to make more nett profit...
  9. Raw ingredients are zero rated for VAT purposes, and if they are prepared by in-service personnel (i.e. mod staff) there is no vat payable.

    Once contractors become involved (and I have had to spend too much of my life negotiating with those cnuts at sodexho, ess, granada, etc - they change their names every 18 months) then they put vat on the food.

    This vat is due at point of supply (i.e. at the mess), but the MOD get that back in non PAYD establishments. With PAYD coming in, the VAT has to be oaid for by personnel, so there's no prospect of avoiding it. The money that's collected in VAT gets paid over to HMRC, and can't be reclaimed - allegedly.

    This is what I am being told, anyway, and it seems to check out with HMRC. They have told me that there is a parallel with a normal civvy restaurant, where diners have to pay VAT on prepared food, but shoppers don't have to pay VAT on raw ingredients.

    And no, I don't think it is proper or fair, but they threatened to do this at our mess and we had an accountant on team who looked into things.
  10. According to this, PAYD is not a disaster.

  11. I never served with PAYD so I can't comment. But I do remember being able to get bacon butties and a brew out of hours at most cook houses, if you were "on duty".
    Aramark seem to be doing OK for themselves though!
    Maybe you would like to leave a message for their UK’s chief executive Andrew Main below.
  12. Well having used PAYD I was wondering how you know if you are being charged VAT or not. No receipts and nothing on the prices saying one thing or the other.

    Being in Germany, are we charged VAT? What happened to 'Tax Free'? Or if we are, as we are only offered one official source of meals, shouldn't we be able to claim it back?
  13. Don't know if vat applies to military serving overseas, but the idea of PAYD is surely that you can decide to dine elsewhere if you want to?

    Worth checking though. As for the official lie of propaganda, nobody believes that BS. The civvies who administer it are, on the whole, a great bunch - I have no problems with them. Just with the companies who administer it and the cosy system of pathetically audited kick-backs they employ.

    Our mess is non PAYD and I'm told they are allowed just £1.78/day for the cost of raw ingredients/person (excluding labour/overheads etc) by the MOD. You don't get much to eat from Sainsburies for that sort of money.
  14. When I was single, it used to bug me that I was getting charged for food when I hardly ever ate in the cookhouse. I believe that PAYD has addressed this.

    As to the standard of food .... if it is sh1t, complain and complain and complain - there must be complaint books available; don't just put up with it. Other than that, vote wth your feet and when the contactor ends up cooking no meals, questions will start getting asked at Bde, Div and higher.
  15. To a point. Firstly time doesn't alway give you the choice of eating somewhere off camp. Secondly, everywhere on camp is supplied and run by the same firm that provides PAYD..... so, no choice. But don't you dare use that word 'monopoly' 8O