PAYD - The reality

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Outstanding, Jan 22, 2008.

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  1. Now that PAYD is getting properly established everywhere and most people have experienced it at least once, what seems to be the view.

    Officers - Dont really mind as little has actually changed except their messes are less relaxed about occasional meals.

    SNCOs - Don't really like it as the good to haves have gone (Tea & Toast etc)

    Cookhouse (ooops Regt Restaurant) so many varying stories that difficult to say much except that generally we are worse off than before PAYD.

  2. Bit of a curate's egg - good in parts. I travel around units in SE England; from what I've seen and heard, some mobs are quite happy, others far less so. Many have simply accepted that it's here to stay, and have bigger crocodiles closer to their canoes to fret over...

    Personally I find it's not as bad as I'd feared, but there is a definite degadation in the level of service, and flexibility is massively reduced.
  3. Thats pretty much what I reckon too, now we have it can it be fine tuned to abetter more flexible service.

    I also find it strangely unfair on the juniors that in theory any paying customer can eat in the cookhouse (oops Regt restaurant) but not in either of the messes, yet they are run as commercial operations by the same company - I undersdtand why it just seems abit Goose & Gander to me!
  4. I suppose you have a point, however, can you imagine the scene in the Mess:

    Pte Fcuknuts: "Pass the salt RSM"

    RSM: "X^%%$*&@@!"
  5. How about Pte Fucknuts mum asking for the salt!!
  6. How about doin FUcknuts's mum up the hoop, if she's a milf and giving some of your own salt.........

    Back on the thread, we dont have PAYD here yet - however coming in Aug, but I dont think it going to have effect much due to the FFR exchange rate as it cheap as chips out here, excuse the pun...
  7. Nice business speak TMW, must remember that
  8. We have just had a Mess Meeting on this very subject about 30mins ago. We go PAYD on the 28th Jan, and the meeting was to discuss the Tea and Toast saga. We decided to vote on whether each member pays a extra £2 on top on £1 enhancement, to enable the members to have "as many pieces and cups of coffee" as you want to remain.
    It would be interesting from other Arrsers in Messes what you do. We will trial it for 3months.
    We are a very small Mess but made up of different Units and we saw the individual payment of Tea and Toast would kill off the meeting up of lads to "get stuff done".
  9. eh?

    I've been accused of many things, but never knowing anything about business!
  10. payd has killed our mess especially the ritual sit round the evening meal table and chat about stuff.
    That and the fact we pay more now over a 7 day period than we did before with the monthly salary deduction, portions are smaller, and its all put on to our mess bills instead of being able to pay cash at till.
    some crap about cost of till (not my problem crapomark) and breath!!
  12. Letter from latest Soldier Mag:

    PAYD doesn’t tick my box

    I HAVE been a member of three WOs’ and sergeants’ messes and have seen the decimation of meal times due to Pay As You Dine.

    While I believe PAYD works well for junior NCOs, it is genuinely sub-standard for the mess. It has created an environment in which civilian management does not care about quality of food and continually finds ways to save money, restricting what you are entitled to.

    How much does a meal cost? £1.70-ish with extra messing? Think again. If you have no money in your wallet you use your bank card (which costs £1.25 in the regimental cash line, if it isn’t out of order). Failing that, you have to spend a minimum amount to obtain cash-back (if the shop is open).

    Clutching your newly acquired £10 note you head to the mess to be told there is no chance of getting a core meal because they have been instructed not to make any extra for people who haven’t pre-booked.

    So you go for the other options. Now you hear that this will be cooked to order, will cost extra, and that there’s no chance of a hot dessert. Soup is a no-go and the only realistic meal you’re going to get within an hour is sausage and chips.

    You sit next to your friends who are equally not pleased – it turns out there is no dessert for them because they forgot to tick the box even though they have paid for it.

    Part of the perks of joining the mess was getting away from cookhouse food, but now we just get treated like we’re hardly worth the effort. Folk have been driven to their rooms so thank goodness for the microwave. – Name and address supplied.

    Brig Jamie Gordon, DPS(A), replies: I am sorry to hear that you are not receiving the standard of service you expect. PAYD can and has delivered the service required.
    Can I suggest you address this issue through your Supervising Officer (normally the QM) and Messing Committee. The Supervising Officer should hold a weekly meeting with the contractor and attend a monthly meeting chaired by the SO2 Contract Authorising Officer.
    If contractors fail to meet their contractual obligations, financial penalties, referred to as Service Credits, can be imposed on them.
  13. And another one:

    Food story was pure propaganda

    I HAVE never read so many stories in Soldier about military caterers (Nov issue) and I’ve also never thought of the magazine as a propaganda tool.

    The feature “Hot potato” [on Pay As You Dine (PAYD)] does nothing but tell us what great things civilian companies are doing. Why? Profit, that’s why. They are not doing it for nothing.

    PAYD is a cost-cutting exercise. I agree that soldiers should not pay for what they are not eating, but let’s put it into perspective. I don’t work in a PAYD kitchen yet, but it’s only a matter of time. My soldiers can help themselves, within reason. Under PAYD they will get what they pay for.To satisfy their appetites they’ll spend more for more portions – these firms don’t give food away.

    Under PAYD they will eventually pay a lot more.

    You raised the prospect of soldiers running out of money by the end of the month and chefs facing skill fade. The reality is that it’s all about money.

    A fellow corporal says there is not much choice on the menu, but the value for money is fantastic. Am I missing something? A senior NCO is quoted as saying we’ve been given the chance to get to grips with commercial catering and to take civvy qualifications. I’m sure DFSS in Aldershot already offers military chefs civilian qualifications. I know they do because I’ve got some.

    As for the letter headlined “Chefs’ bleak future” (Talkback), I can only agree with someone who has the experience and, like me, is deeply concerned for our jobs and way of life.

    Were the soldiers quoted in Vox pop (“Sound bites”) the only ones asked about PAYD? Not one person has told me they prefer it to the old system, let alone nine. Someone has cleverly used Soldier for blatant propaganda.

    When I joined in 1991, I was told I was a soldier first and a tradesman second. I still believe this, but who am I kidding? We used to be the only army in the world with its own professional catering corps, now we’re going the same way as the Americans. The death of the military chef is on the way. Napoleon would disapprove. – Name and address provided.
  14. Who would have predicted these failings eh? It all looked so good in the proposal.

    Oh yeah - that's right nearly everyone in the chain of command aprt from those who approved of the pot-nooodle approach to feeding soldiers.

    Let's summarise - food provided for all, by soldiers and skilled tradesmen will be improved by using large commercial companies, making a huge profit and using their vast experience of starving old people in homes/hospitals and the like. Throw in use and access to the bars, PRI shops and NAAFI to sweeten the deal - how can it fail?
  15. The reality...
    I now have worked both sides of the fence. My last unit was PAYD and I am now back into mainstream army catering. My personal view of PAYD, which was not shared by the senior management (intelligent customer) was that within the contract there was no scope to stop skill fade for the older chefs, the younger chefs straight from the factory also could not be brought up to the standard of chefs of a few years ago with the limited menu cycle. The seniors view was that it was the fault of the NCO on shift if this could not be achieved. The choices of food on the hotplate was reduced to 3-core choice (1 a salad); the other choices would be retail (more money). The quality of the food is dependant on the costed ingredients (cheap as possible) and the skill of the chef. The customer does not pay any more money for the core items than he already pays under DMR for that meal. Under the contract (CCM) the catering contractor employs the mil chefs for 8 hours a day and pays the MOD for his service. The mil chef is now employed to work in the other food outlets on camp i.e. Hub bars, and in the evening in the messes to provide bar snacks.As part of the contract the regiment gets a % of the profit (Gain share). If the contractor loses money or fails to reach its targets the sh$t rolls down hill, and the CO starts asking questions.I could go on but it might make me sound bitter and twisted.