PAYD Mess Functions

Discussion in 'Seniors' started by CH512O, Feb 5, 2008.

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  1. I know this maybe somewhere else in ARRSE, but as its Mess specific id thought i would post in here...
    Should the price of a Reggy Dinner be anymore than it was prior to PAYD?
    I dont mean staff etc, bearing in mind we will be using one of our "free" do's. Im on about the cost per head for food for people attending. Some people have been saying that if you are on PAYD, the contractor is charging more than he did prior?
  2. We are being charged £9.60 per head for a simple 3 course plus an incredible £15 per head for 'labour'. Previously we paid 10 regimental lads £30 a head for waitering on, had a whip round and they usually all ended up with £45-50 each for two hours work. We also paid similar for the bar staff and Mess NCOs who were there. Now that the civvies are in charge (a) they will provide half the number of waiters for the same per head which makes one wonder where the other part of the money is going and (b) tried to get us to accept their wine and port. It was only after a quick shake of the head and a chat after with the RSM that we found they charge double the going rate for a bottle of port and their wines are cheap but charged at high what cost us £15 per head for the last 4 years now costs £25 with a reduction in service and facilities and no improved menu.

    Someone is making a LOT of money out of Mess functions and the profits are not going back into the Mess as they used to. It also leads onto the point we were told by the lads about PAYD in general. Some of the lads are starving by the middle of the month because they get the extra dosh in their wallets and spend it on beer. Of course they are supposed to budget etc but come on....we've ALL been guilty of not doing so on occasion :cool: The numbers of soldiers not being fed properly are rising....

    The whole system is rubbish and worst now that the buggers also charge us extra to use our own barracks which has been our depot and museum or RHQ for 250 wonder so many retired soldiers do not attend functions - they feel so unwelcome in what used to be THEIR environment.
  3. This is not new to PAYD. I recall prior to PAYD but post contractorisation of messes in Germany, it was cheaper to arrange a "do" downtown by a significant margin.

    Errosion of standards and lifestyle has been an ongoing issue for at least 20 years and has been accelerated recently by PAYD.
  4. Good or Bad, PAYD isn't going to go away. But having spent over 15 years in the Sgt's mess I personally belIeve that a revamp in how mess functions are paid for is long overdue.

    The days of the whole mess sitting down for a large slap up meal, port, cigars and entertainment all for under £10 ended at least 10 years ago. Can't speak for PAYD as I have only been in messes run by civilian contractors but not as PAYD.

    People have many more responsibilities these days, much of which is brought on by an increase in operational tempo: Increased tours, increased home ownership, private schooling being just a few.

    So being told that a mess function that's the following night is now a levy is an outrage. If you want to have a drink and make a full night of it then that's fine, but for those who don't, they shouldn't be lumbered with subsidising someone else's alcohol habit. I mean, you wouldn't expect to see a packet of Fags being levied on your mess bill would you!

    I'm all for mess dinner nights and fully supportive of the traditions and ambience that they bring, they just need to be paid for in a more fairer way.
  5. Whilst I agree with the bulk of your message and especially support the idea that individuals should pay for extraordinairy personal expenses, I do think that we should be more combative in respect to PAYD. If the service/system is not providing either the service or style that is demanded, then we must make the point that we will not put up with it. Sadly accepting that PAYD is here to stay is akin to surrender before H Hour. Oh boy the real row is only just kicking off!!
  6. Yes I agree with you, maybe I wasn't that clear. What I meant is that hopefully with this enforced situation i.e. PAYD. RSM'S PMC's and mess committes will have to make some brave and radical descions to modernise the messes. Certainly not advocating giving in to a mess contractor.
  7. Good man - you gotta take the battle to them, demand the standrads and make them reduce their profits. that brings it home to them.
  8. As I only have a few months left to serve, please don't ask me to go to the bottom of my nearly empty box of good ideas to try and find a solution. This fix for this one is up to the army of today and tomorrow as they are the ones that will have to live with it.

    I'm now just left to sort out the potting shed and oil the wheels on my electric golf buggy. 'FOUR!!!' :wave:
  9. I am probably on to a looser from the start, but what the hell

    As we can not go back to the last system for legal reasons (see the thread on Armynet)

    Lets go the whole hog and go back to the system before that. Ensure that all the young men and women that we cajole, coheres, coax and persuade to leave their families bosum and join our fine establishment get guaranteed accommodation and 3 square meals a day as part of their “Package”

    I never really put much thought into why I was paying for meals when I was a young soldier, however, why should soldiers have to "pay to dine". If meals where part of the deal, it would push their finances closer to other public servants.

    Officers and SNCO’s would be required to pay extra messing to preserve their little luxuries

    Just a thought.
  10. As ever with a PAYD question it provokes emotive replies, but thanks for whatever has been said.
    As for your idea CAARPS, i have heard this banded around before, and agree, but it would never get the go-ahead. If it did Peter would rob Paul to make it happen.
  11. CH5120

    Without a shadow of a doubt it would never happen,

    At least not until the after the fifth or sixth public enquiry into some tragic event involving a soldiers inability to pay and embarrassment / fear of asking for help.

    But looking on the bright side, at least they are still providing accommodation,

    Now there’s a thought, why build all them expensive Z type blocks when we can stop charging rent and let the troops negotiate their own (after all students have to).

    Then we wont have to provide Barracks and all that expensive security and then we can get rid of PAYD because we wont have any infrastructure.

    Let them join a civvie Gym, No expensive equipment to be procured.

    Oh all them budgetary opportunities
  12. and back in the real world ... H Hour has been and gone, VE day (for the contractors, we lost) has been and gone, VJ day (again, not for us) is a distant memory. If you want to understand just how impossible it is to go back then lets remember at what stage during Telic civvy contractors had to be brought in because the British armed forces can't provide enough chefs to feed a single division on operations, never mind in barracks!
  13. And for some reason I've been told that I'm a cynic at heart!
  14. Could this be the underlying problem? We only hear what we've been told.

    Is the Commissary Department (sorry, Army Chefs), adequately recruited?

    In years gone by, it was a bonus for somebody to be taken on by a butcher to learn the trade, if only because it meant that his family would get "under the counter" meat. This mind-set encouraged blokes to join the Army to learn the butchering trade.

    Young lads went to bakers for similar reasons.

    With the prevalence of Supermarkets, the butchery and bakery trades have been hidden in the background, only being visible in the "old-fashioned" and "awaiting-closure-upon-death-of-current-owner" shops. Ambition to be a butcher or baker has dwindled, while thoughts of cooking for a living bring forward thoughts of McDonalds....

    Could it be that the Army didn't have enough Chefs to feed the Army in barracks, therefore contractorisation was brought about to fill this need? And that economic logic was cited as the reason, rather than admit that sections of the Army were under-subscribed?

    This would explain any reticence to return to former systems - essentially, if the Army hasn't the manpower to do so, then it's not an option.

    Yearning for a return to the days when an Army Chef could be given an old boot, a handful of grass and a teaspoon of curry powder and turn them into a sumptuous meal.
  15. You are either looking for an arguement or your just a straight forward FU-KWIT as you obviously never read the post fully.

    Soldiers have moaned for years about paying for food that they say that they don't eat, but the fact of the matter is that they do eat it and always have. The same soldiers have also always moaned about the quality of the 5 or more selections on offer on the hotplate at each meal that was provided by military chefs. The service have now responded to the soldiers gripes and moans and provided a service to match their requests, it is still in its infancy so like everything that is new it will hopefully develop. But funnily enough, everyone is now moaning about what they asked for!

    Simple fact of the matter is that you could feed them in the Savoy and they would find something to moan about.