PAYD - HQ Land your views please

PAYD

  • yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • no

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • dont care as long as i get fed

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#21
elovabloke said:
Funny old world. From 71-93 the only thing in the old cookhouse comments book was - why can’t we just pay for what we eat. Now nobody seem to keen. I would have much rather kept my cash and eaten down the sallybash, ydub, tocH and the pub.
True, and this was exactly the view I held whilst serving, and still hold now that I live-in as a civilian. However, I don't imagine anyone who wrote in the suggestions book wanted the contracts to be awarded to hopelessly inept companies who have already demonstrated their inability to run military catering establishments, or the contractors given a monopoly.
 
#22
mushroom said:
One specific - at Watchfield one officer asked for cream with his pudding rather than custard. The answer was that the contract stated custard and no cream would be available.

At another location one officer asked for two pieces of bacon and no sausage rather than one piece and a sausage, was told no the contract was one piece of bacon.

Both times the contract was quoted and the attitude was aggressively defensive. I have not yet heard that 'it's more than my job's worth' but I'm sure that it will come soon. Moreover if this is the attitude in the officers mess, what is it like to the boys.
It's a good point. I was at Shriv last year and had a very similar problem. Picture the scene. Two hotplates on opposite sides of the room; one with salads and so on, the other with the usual hot food, etc. I decide to get some chicken from the hot side and some pasta from the cold side only to be told by the harridan behind the salad counter that I can't have both (because of the contract). 'Oh really?' says I at which point I smartly bugger off and find the chief catering bloke and tell him what I want, how I want it and would he be kind enough to oblige, etc. To tell you the truth, his level of embarassment was the same as my level of annoyance and everything was squared away but it certainly didn't stop my chuntering when I finally sat down.

Low level stuff perhaps but still keenly felt.
 
#25
Sky-Monkey said:
mushroom said:
One specific - at Watchfield one officer asked for cream with his pudding rather than custard. The answer was that the contract stated custard and no cream would be available.

At another location one officer asked for two pieces of bacon and no sausage rather than one piece and a sausage, was told no the contract was one piece of bacon.

Both times the contract was quoted and the attitude was aggressively defensive. I have not yet heard that 'it's more than my job's worth' but I'm sure that it will come soon. Moreover if this is the attitude in the officers mess, what is it like to the boys.
It's a good point. I was at Shriv last year and had a very similar problem. Picture the scene. Two hotplates on opposite sides of the room; one with salads and so on, the other with the usual hot food, etc. I decide to get some chicken from the hot side and some pasta from the cold side only to be told by the harridan behind the salad counter that I can't have both (because of the contract). 'Oh really?' says I at which point I smartly bugger off and find the chief catering bloke and tell him what I want, how I want it and would he be kind enough to oblige, etc. To tell you the truth, his level of embarassment was the same as my level of annoyance and everything was squared away but it certainly didn't stop my chuntering when I finally sat down.

Low level stuff perhaps but still keenly felt.
The problem with shriv is that it's a PFI and these are more tightly controlled. That said even they should have some feedback facility to register comments/complaints.

Please use these systems if, what you as a 'Cunsumer' require is not being delivered. Contract Authorising Officers monitor the performance of the commercial delivery and can only work with the genuine feedback that is received to make changes.
 
#26
i was quite a sceptic with regards to PAYD and the effect on military chefs, however i have been involved in implementing PAYD in a large training location albeit early days the soldier is getting a much better deal. myths aside the core meal is plenty and excellent value for money. the military contract monitors have a huge roll to play in ensuring that standards are maintained in conjunction with JSP 456. leading up to going live on alot of the briefings soldiers thought they were entitled to eat as much as they wanted and under PAYD though they would starve. our briefings educated all on how they have been over eating for years and on what they are actually entitled to. since going live even the biggest sceptic has commented on the excellent value for money. managed and monitored correctly PAYD is a much better system.
 
#27
cakenarse said:
i was quite a sceptic with regards to PAYD and the effect on military chefs, however i have been involved in implementing PAYD in a large training location albeit early days the soldier is getting a much better deal. myths aside the core meal is plenty and excellent value for money. the military contract monitors have a huge roll to play in ensuring that standards are maintained in conjunction with JSP 456. leading up to going live on alot of the briefings soldiers thought they were entitled to eat as much as they wanted and under PAYD though they would starve. our briefings educated all on how they have been over eating for years and on what they are actually entitled to. since going live even the biggest sceptic has commented on the excellent value for money. managed and monitored correctly PAYD is a much better system.
You should go to Fallingbostel and have a look at the setup there. Complete opposite to what you have described above. The core meals I have had when visiting were nothing short of shocking
 
#28
Have had PAYD here for the past 6 months. Had a few teething problems but now that it's sorted everything is fine. No problems with portion sizes and variety. More people are using the mess for meals than were using it before PAYD. Results speaks for itself.
 
#29
wrinkles said:
Have had PAYD here for the past 6 months. Had a few teething problems but now that it's sorted everything is fine. No problems with portion sizes and variety. More people are using the mess for meals than were using it before PAYD. Results speaks for itself.
It would seem that where the service is good, it is used. Where it is bad, it won't be.... unless as in the case of Fally, there just isn't all that much opportunity for the single soldier without a car to have any 'off camp' choice. The on camp choice is all from the same contractor and as such, not really a choice.

If your mess is crap and the regiment next door's is good, can you feed yourself in that one? If you can, that may lead to the 'bad' ones being deserted for the 'good' ones, introducing a level of competition and as such maintain standards.
 
#30
Concept is good - but using NAAFI which is a second rate badly run organisation is guarenteed to screw it up.
 
#31
Consider the Canteen a long time ago:

The portion size was limited, but nonetheless adequate. If a soldier still felt hungry, bread, margarine and jam was available in virtually unlimited quantities. More recently, the bread had been hidden away at some meal times, though I suspect that you could ask for it.


I've experienced PAYD once. The breakfast sausage didn't seem quite right, but otherwise the fare wasn't too bad. The portion sizes seemed ok, but then again I shovel in half as much as I used to when in my prime.

BUT, I noted with dread that two slices of bread plus butter were being charged at 30p. Now where is the justification in charging soldiers about £2 a loaf (retail value 80p or less) - particularly as this used to be an accepted "top-up"?


If soldiers are indeed heading for alternative, off-camp, food outlets, this must result in a lower than anticipated income for the PAYD operator. As staffing is at it's minimum anyway, it must be expected that prices will have to rise to cover operating costs, in turn forcing the remaining soldiers to dine elsewhere.

What's the next stage? Food parcels from Mum?
 
#34
walt_of_the_walts said:
dingerr said:
It would be benificial if soldiers were taught more on healthy eating etc. Possibly as MATT. There does not seem to be too much focus on this within the Army other than in rehabilitation centres.
Healthy eating is a matter for SCHOOLS! Not the Army. Soldiers shouldnt need to be taught about healthy eating, they should be provided with healthy food in abundance. It should be that X factor of benefits that military service should bring.

The notion of soldiers having to pay anything at all for food whilst in service is fundamentally wrong, in or out of camp, at home or deployed.
Don't agree with you there. Sportsmen and athletes are taught extensively how the body works and what fuels it best, this is an integral part of their training. Unfortunately nowadays this is required due to the many pitfalls aout there that contribute to poor eating and diet. I often look on the back of a packet to see the calories/sugar/carbs etc contained within and am often lost at what is good and what is bad, this becomes increasingly confusing depending on which source of information you go to.

Based on your idea that healthy eating shouldn't be taught then neither should substance abuse. As a leader/commander/manager the well being and health of your subordinates should be of paramount concern and any help you can get or generate in this area should be gratefully received.

As for not paying for food at all. Nice idea, i'd love nothing more than a free lunch, but really a bit of a daft statement to make and of all the things soldiers have a problem with paying to feed themselves is not one of them.

Getting back to the thread my biggest concern with PAYD is that now it is contracted out it is going to be a money making concern and when the normal rules of commerce are applied and the contracter tries to make more money here and save money there it is the Soldier that is going to suffer. This can work if it is tightly controlled and the contracters are held to book and removed quickly if they are found wanting.

Think of the problems in the messes with companies such as SODHEXO
 
#35
thanks for your comments but please remeber that all contractors are governed as the Army chefs are by the DMR plus wages bills and other external bills.
 
#36
UKLF_Kat said:
thanks for your comments but please remeber that all contractors are governed as the Army chefs are by the DMR plus wages bills and other external bills.
Yes, but where they differ is that Army Chefs are not permitted to make a profit, whereas contractors must - not just to cover wage bills of the front-line staff and their management, but also (presumably) to encourage shareholders. Isn't the restriction of food outlets on camp one of the means to maximise profits via monopoly trading?

Other methods of increasing profits could be:
a) Reduce portion size (and claim this is beneficial in preventing obesity),
b) Charge over the odds for the non-core meal items (15p per slice of bread),
c) Source cheaper ingredients (this may infer lower quality, though still theoretically edible),
d) Reduce waste (accept lower standards of cooking, reduce portions, produce monotonous menus to ensure left-overs are re-presented).

I don't claim that these methods are in progress - my own experience is too little to give valid comment - but some of the posts in this thread seem suggestive of these practices.
 
#37
im sorry im just civi scum trying to get the best for my boys, so they dont get dont get done over by the contractor (my boss)
 
#38
Not all civvies are scum - I'm one most of the time.

Wait - let me think about this......
 
#39
putteesinmyhands said:
UKLF_Kat said:
thanks for your comments but please remeber that all contractors are governed as the Army chefs are by the DMR plus wages bills and other external bills.
Yes, but where they differ is that Army Chefs are not permitted to make a profit, whereas contractors must - not just to cover wage bills of the front-line staff and their management, but also (presumably) to encourage shareholders. Isn't the restriction of food outlets on camp one of the means to maximise profits via monopoly trading?

Other methods of increasing profits could be:
a) Reduce portion size (and claim this is beneficial in preventing obesity),
b) Charge over the odds for the non-core meal items (15p per slice of bread),
c) Source cheaper ingredients (this may infer lower quality, though still theoretically edible),
d) Reduce waste (accept lower standards of cooking, reduce portions, produce monotonous menus to ensure left-overs are re-presented).

I don't claim that these methods are in progress - my own experience is too little to give valid comment - but some of the posts in this thread seem suggestive of these practices.
Whilst not being in favour of PAYD (experience shows that some soldiers will go on the piss and then not have enough money for food) I must disagree with some of Your points.

-I believe that there is a detailed requirement for the diet of forces personnel with regards to calorific intake etc. Smaller portions would not supply their needs

-Like other restaurants messes and restaurants are not allowed to reheat cooked food. Once cooked, not eaten - chucked
 
#40
PAYD is a fantastic idea! Thats were it ends as it is being managed by a proffit making org,,,, who in my experience care little about the staff and even less of the captive customer.

I've been on PAYD for many months now and I'm quids in, on first glance that is. The fact is I now spend more at Tesco every week buying food to cook myself than I was charged for what in effect was as much as I could eat. (Based upon the known fact that the food cooked was generally in sufficient quantity to feed the amount of peopleexpected, allthough was being paid for by the entire number on strangth. therefore the headchefs would spend more than you were entitled to and provide better food.)

PAYD is cheep food, thats were it ends! I have yet to come accross a single person ordering the 'nice fillet steak' that we were promissed.

On top of that, 'ESS' have opened many 'mixed ranks' kitchens that were the domain of the serving soldier to the civies and their own staff. Now I have no problem and dont think Im too good to sit with them, but the Army is paying for the fuel and facilities for this proffit making org,,, to make more proffit- plus my nice quiet dining room is now hectic.

The only benifit of PAYD is that if you dont attend a meal, you dont pay!

It is the case is my Div area that many of us have lost weight, now ask yourself why?



Ps, the food is still fkucnig afwlul!!!
 

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