PAYD and TA on courses

#1
I'm due to attend a course for Bowman Training at Bicester. Now the whole thorny subject of PAYD is bothering me. Having checked JSP 456 I found in Section 2A paragraph 0212A Additional Regulations part c which says

"c. Members of the Reserve Forces on reserve duty as a result of their duties are obliged to take meals in Service messes over 5 miles away from their permanent training centre are entitled to all meals at public expense for a period of up to 30 days."

I think that says I don't have to pay when I'm on a course. Or is there something else I'm missing?
 
#2
I believe that changed as of 1 July this year mate. I'm sure someone will clarify it.
 
#3
Aye. He's right. You've shit it and will have to pay for everything. Details in this DIN: 2007DIN02-075

You can't claim it back either.

On the plus side, if you stick to the 'core' meal, it's only about £3 a day.
 
#4
Or you could do what i am going to do on my bowman course at bicester is take a microwave and kettle with me and buy from tescoes
 
#5
balldrick said:
Or you could do what i am going to do on my bowman course at bicester is take a microwave and kettle with me and buy from tescoes
Not really a solution for a 2 week (or longer) course though is it?
 
#6
StabTiffy2B said:
Aye. He's right. You've shit it and will have to pay for everything. Details in this DIN: 2007DIN02-075

You can't claim it back either.

On the plus side, if you stick to the 'core' meal, it's only about £3 a day.
Even for TA, I understood that TA regs still allowed for free meals past the 5 miles distance?
 
#7
StabTiffy2B said:
balldrick said:
Or you could do what i am going to do on my bowman course at bicester is take a microwave and kettle with me and buy from tescoes
Not really a solution for a 2 week (or longer) course though is it?
3 and a half weeks to be accurate why not got my combat fridge aswell i take that put some milk in it and other stuff get some serial and bread and a load of baked beans and bobs your mothers live in lover self suffecient for a month i have lived of worse for longer menu "D" for 6 weeks in 2003 springs to mind

and sodexho are not getting my sodding money
 
#8
I've looked through that 2007DIN02-075. My gripe with it is that it doesn't once mention Reserve Forces. The entire thrust of the DIM is regular through and through.
 
#9
balldrick said:
StabTiffy2B said:
balldrick said:
Or you could do what i am going to do on my bowman course at bicester is take a microwave and kettle with me and buy from tescoes
Not really a solution for a 2 week (or longer) course though is it?
3 and a half weeks to be accurate why not got my combat fridge aswell i take that put some milk in it and other stuff get some serial and bread and a load of baked beans and bobs your mothers live in lover self suffecient for a month i have lived of worse for longer menu "D" for 6 weeks in 2003 springs to mind

and sodexho are not getting my sodding money
When are you off to Bicester then? Not 15th next month by any chance?
 
#10
Kitmarlowe said:
balldrick said:
StabTiffy2B said:
balldrick said:
Or you could do what i am going to do on my bowman course at bicester is take a microwave and kettle with me and buy from tescoes
Not really a solution for a 2 week (or longer) course though is it?
3 and a half weeks to be accurate why not got my combat fridge aswell i take that put some milk in it and other stuff get some serial and bread and a load of baked beans and bobs your mothers live in lover self suffecient for a month i have lived of worse for longer menu "D" for 6 weeks in 2003 springs to mind

and sodexho are not getting my sodding money
When are you off to Bicester then? Not 15th next month by any chance?
next week
 
#11
WhiteHorse said:
Even for TA, I understood that TA regs still allowed for free meals past the 5 miles distance?
Nope.

Kitmarlowe said:
I've looked through that 2007DIN02-075. My gripe with it is that it doesn't once mention Reserve Forces. The entire thrust of the DIM is regular through and through.
But the applicability of the DIN refers back to JSP 754 which details Regs and TA.
 
#12
Kitmarlowe said:
I've looked through that 2007DIN02-075. My gripe with it is that it doesn't once mention Reserve Forces. The entire thrust of the DIM is regular through and through.
That's an interesting point, tackled by StabTiffy.

In addition, can a DIN/JSP change TA Regs? I don't think so. In the hierarchy of things, I would have thought you have the Reserve Forces Act at the top, TA Regs one rank below, and DINs, JSPs and other administrative notices below that.

I imagine some JPA/PAYD wallah will know the actual score about whether members of the TA pay for scoff when on courses. If they set out their answer here, I'd appreciate it if they explained how the DIN/JSP trumps TA Regs.

*edited because StabTiffy answered one of my points
 
#13
i thought TA regs had been amended on 1st of july aswell or was I being misled by the Permanant staff of my Sqn
 
#14
StabTiffy2B said:
WhiteHorse said:
Even for TA, I understood that TA regs still allowed for free meals past the 5 miles distance?
Nope.

Kitmarlowe said:
I've looked through that 2007DIN02-075. My gripe with it is that it doesn't once mention Reserve Forces. The entire thrust of the DIM is regular through and through.
But the applicability of the DIN refers back to JSP 754 which details Regs and TA.
What JSP 754? I can find JSP 752 which seems to cover allowances but no JSP 754......
 
#15
Apologies for my absence people. I was made to do some work.

balldrick said:
misled by the Permanant staff of my Sqn
There's a relevant phrase here. Something to do with arrses, elbows and the inability to distinquish the difference.

Kitmarlowe said:
What JSP 754? I can find JSP 752 which seems to cover allowances but no JSP 754......
JSP 754 - TRI-SERVICE REGULATIONS FOR PAY AND CHARGES

Dr_Evil said:
I imagine some JPA/PAYD wallah...
Are you calling me a 'wallah'?

Dr_Evil said:
In addition, can a DIN/JSP change TA Regs? I don't think so. In the hierarchy of things, I would have thought you have the Reserve Forces Act at the top, TA Regs one rank below, and DINs, JSPs and other administrative notices below that.
Not sure on that one. Although it is a good point. I just read the paperwork and do as I'm told.
 
#16
StabTiffy2B. I can read JSP 752, JSP 456 and the DIN, along with TA Reqs, They're all on Armynet, but JSP 754 not even listed, it keeps being refered to in various DINs but not actually available to check.
 
#17
Kitmarlowe said:
StabTiffy2B. I can read JSP 752, JSP 456 and the DIN, along with TA Reqs, They're all on Armynet, but JSP 754 not even listed, it keeps being refered to in various DINs but not actually available to check.
It's on the Defence Intranet. If you can't access that, then you've probably shit out.

Edited to add: That's not very helpful. If there's a certain bit you need, I'll have a look but it might take me a while.
 
#18
StabTiffy2B said:
Kitmarlowe said:
StabTiffy2B. I can read JSP 752, JSP 456 and the DIN, along with TA Reqs, They're all on Armynet, but JSP 754 not even listed, it keeps being refered to in various DINs but not actually available to check.
It's on the Defence Intranet. If you can't access that, then you've probably shit out.

Edited to add: That's not very helpful. If there's a certain bit you need, I'll have a look but it might take me a while.
Thanks for that. ;-)
 
#19
Kitmarlowe said:
I've looked through that 2007DIN02-075. My gripe with it is that it doesn't once mention Reserve Forces. The entire thrust of the DIM is regular through and through.
That'll be the one army concept working in at least one area then!

Remember folks TA Regs are not set in stone and can be (and are) regularly amended and updated.

This is done by means of DIN amongst other means. Generally speaking you should look at TA regs, then look at the relevant DIN and see which has the latest amendment date, whichever it is takes precedence until TA regs are next amended.

bottom line on this one is that PAYD is here to stay and the only times you get free food are clearly listed in the relevant DIN's, designated exercises being one example.

I for one am fully anticipating the first ever EX SWEEP THE HANGAR AT THE WEEKEND 07 in the near future, where there's a will there's a way...

but back to the matter in hand - I'd go along with the fella above who appears to be experienced in the ways of the army course - take your own white goods and you have freedom to eat what you want WHEN you want (ish).

Or you could do as I have tried on several courses and attempt to get all the nutrients and vitamins you need from beer...

Humph.
 
#20
I’ve just finished a 3 week camp which started 1st July and I did not sign for any meals during this time. Does this mean I will just get billed for every meal, even though I didn’t eat in the cook house every time? How is the billing going to take place, direct cash payment or deduction from wages?
 

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