Pay

[barbarasson]

15 Bde have dictated that there will be no pay for Friday night training, until soldiers have served until 1900hrs on the Saturday. Retention? My arrse.

 

[TA_sig]

In the case that this is genuine and not some random rumour (checks name of the website).

Eh, how does that work? There's a few potential problems there like. Heck I can give you one from last month. What, if say a small ex was due to start at 0600 through to 1700 on the Sat so you rock up on fri night, set kit up ready for early start but you won't get paid for it since you're probably gone by 1800.

Bah humbug.

 

[Svyazist]

I am in 15Bde, this has been policy with us for a good two years, I am honestly surprised that you have just been affected by it. I suppose you are lucky it took you so long!

 

[Cardinal]

I thought that was standard, now. I seem to remember that for weekends starting Friday night and ending on Sunday we got two and a half days pay, but that ended years ago, about the same time we stopped getting Bounty in April rather than May, June, July, August.....bugger it still hasn't come.

I often wondered what would happen if on Friday night someone said they wouldn't work beciase they were not getting paid. Not brave enough to try it myself like.

if you have been getting paid for Friday night training at weekends keep quiet or the Fuggers will want the money back!

Cardinal

 

[Svyazist]

We get between two and a quarter and two and a half days for a weekend, depending on the official start time of the weekend's training.
For instance if we are told to turn up at 2000 we will only get a quarter of a days pay.
I believe that to get a half days pay you have to do more than 5 hours of training, but I think that changes with the introduction of JPA!

 

[barbarasson]

my complaint is that one can do a full 8 hours training on a Saturday, but if one comes in on A Friday at 1900 you still only get one day of pay. Irrespective of it not being a full 24 hours, you have clearly given up your Friday night and a day on Saturday, and it should be renumerated. What will happen is units will try getting people to turn in at 0600 on the Saturday. After a while turnout will drop, and then units will say 'how about turning in on Friday at 2100 so we are ready to go in the morning'. This is penny-pinching that will have a dramatic impact on costs, as people will not turn in, and what is it for? One burst with a .5 browning.

 

[paysheet]

They've decided at my unit, that you can only get 1/4 pay for a Friday 1930 start and Sunday evening finish. Also now telling people that they can't attend anymore as their days have run out and the unit needs to make expenditure cuts. This has affected me even though I've been asked to come in all the time as I work in recruiting, so have done nearly 60 days. Now can't go in until April. Are being paid the wrong rate and still have a few MATTs to do.
I've been in the TA a long time. Its always been badly organised at times but at the moment it seems to be in a state of meltdown, where it stumbles from one blunder to another and you can't trust it to pay you at all (or the wright rate), honour its commitments (promotion etc) or pay you your bounty.

 

[Sapukay]

We get between two and a quarter and two and a half days for a weekend, depending on the official start time of the weekend's training.
For instance if we are told to turn up at 2000 we will only get a quarter of a days pay.
I believe that to get a half days pay you have to do more than 5 hours of training, but I think that changes with the introduction of JPA!

As of the last time I signed off a paysheet (almost a year ago now), 1/2 day was any amount of training between 2hrs 1sec and 4 hrs. 1/4 day was for any quantity of training less than 2hrs (which could take the urine) and a day for any greater quantity (providing 4hrs or more actual training, rather than simply being there).

However, these days I'm very out of the loop on such things so it's probably all changed.

 

[Boxy]

If you're not getting paid, does that mean you're not insured?

 

[barbarasson]

yes it does, so there are issues such as can you get soldiers to stag oon the gate before the start of a drill night. This is all ridiculous penny-pinching. The powers-that-be must surely realise that in the grand scheme of things what they are saving will be nothing compared to the good will being lost

 

[polar]

15 Bde have dictated that there will be no pay for Friday night training, until soldiers have served until 1900hrs on the Saturday. Retention? My arrse.

Its ok cause they're northerners, their soldiers will train till 7pm cause they need the cash. Its not as though TA takes up a considerable amount of leisure (or family) time as it is and doesn't compete with other leisure activities is it?

 

[msr]

The powers-that-be must surely realise that in the grand scheme of things what they are saving will be nothing compared to the good will being lost

Good will does not appear on an accountant's spreadsheet, so will never be factored in...

msr

 

[barbarasson]

yes it does, so there are issues such as can you get soldiers to stag oon the gate before the start of a drill night. This is all ridiculous penny-pinching. The powers-that-be must surely realise that in the grand scheme of things what they are saving will be nothing compared to the good will being lost

 

[Boxy]

deja-vu.

How about if you're travelling(?) to an RTC for course? D'you get paid for that.

I do remember that the Sqn stopped paying us 1/2 day for the Friday night & only paid 1/4 as "we really didn't do much" in that time, apart from draw kit prep vehicles move to trg area etc.

However at the RTC we're paid 1/2 as we don't finish until the good old 23.59 due to makeing sure the wee ones are in their own beds!

 

[msr]

yes it does, so there are issues such as can you get soldiers to stag oon the gate before the start of a drill night. This is all ridiculous penny-pinching. The powers-that-be must surely realise that in the grand scheme of things what they are saving will be nothing compared to the good will being lost

Really? I am still looking for the SUM_GOODWILL function in Excel...

msr

 

[Cardinal]

Its just a shame the top TA Bod is exceptionally rich (not that I have anything against being rich and rather wish I were myself) so does not give a figs ear about TA pay.

It does not affect those making decisions so they dont give a rats behind.

Cardinal

 

[msr]

Cardinal, I think you'll find he does...

msr

 

[barbarasson]

Yes, this sort of decision is not made by The Duke of W, it is made by senior regular officers being advised by regular staff officers and MOD civil servants.

 

[Blyth_spirit]

Right, let me clarify this one as I had some discussion with those chaps that know on Friday about this very subject.

This is not a Bde policy this is straight from TA Regs which governs us all.

Territorial Army Regulations 1978
Army Code 14955 - Amendment 27 - December 2004

7.015

a. Pay is admissible for attendance at training activities (excluding those classed as C-1, C-2 or D) as follows:

(1) For a period of continuous attendance for training from 8 hours up to 24 hours inclusive, whether wholly in one day or partly in one day and partly in another, one day's pay is to be issued, subject to the completion of at least 4 hours actual training in the period. Only one day's pay may be paid within a period of 24 hours.

(2) For a period of continuous attendance for training exceeding 24 hours, pay is to be issued for each day (midnight to midnight) during which the officer or soldier is required to attend for 8 hours or more and, in that period, completes at least 4 hours actual training.

This is laid out is a flowchart at Annex F to chapter 7 of TA Regs which can be viewed on the Army Electronic Library, available through Armynet.

This only comes back to really bite us if training on Fri-Sat does not, in total, exceed 24 hours. If wewant to avoid it in the future we need to make sure training runs to 24 hours and 1 minute (knock off at 1901 on Sat evening) or run a full weekend.

 

[Pork_Pie]

Also now telling people that they can't attend anymore as their days have run out and the unit needs to make expenditure cuts.

Assuming there was little or no warning, this kind of thing makes me crazy.

Appreciate that budgets aren't infinite, but any well run organisation would tell you to take it easy, maybe switch to a w/e every other month, as soon as a problem appeared likely, rather than let you train all the days you want for 7-8 months, and then say 'stop' until April.

If you don't get adequate warning that your days are reaching their limits, then, as you say, you'll end up doing a lot of nice, but not important, stuff, and missing out on the training you really need to do. With predictable effects on morale.

I've been in the TA a long time. Its always been badly organised at times but at the moment it seems to be in a state of meltdown, where it stumbles from one blunder to another and you can't trust it to pay you at all (or the wright rate), honour its commitments (promotion etc) or pay you your bounty.

Probably haven't been in as long as you, but I'm not sure that our admin has changed (apart from some issues with particular people, rather than organisation wide ones). I think it's been this bad for a long time.

I can recall speaking to a couple of RMR types, who were telling me about how cr@p their admin is, HMS Centurion couldn't organise a p1ssup in a brewery, etc. I then met a women whose boyfriend x'ferred from TA inf to RMR, and apparently he thought the admin set up was much better than in the TA!