Pay Scales - Officers vs Soldiers

#1
Could someone PLEASE explain why Officers (excluding Chaplains, Medical & Dental) all get paid the same, dependant only upon time spent in rank, whilst Soldiers get paid on either Higher 'POP STAR' Range or Lower 'PAUPER' Range?

Why don't soldiers all get paid on one pay scale regardless of cap badge - aren't we all working (as one) to achieve the same goal?
 
#2
I thought it was to do with the different jobs undertaken by soldiers - e.g. a draughtsman has a more technical job than a postman.

Whereas officers do roughly the same type of managerial type work no matter what the cap badge.
 
#3
I think its to try and make army wages comparable to civvy ones. Officers are usually graduates (or have graduate potential) so they recieve a salary that reflects what somebody of that educational level would expect on civvy street. Soldiers however require different educational levels for different trades and this is reflected in their pay. Somebody with good grades in school/college may want to go into the army but if civvy street was offering somebody of their academic calibre much more money and the army was offering somebody with no academic ability (no offence intended) the same wage as them, the army would fail to recruit people of sufficient academic standard to do these jobs. It is a similarstory in civvy street, USUALLY

Good grades = Technical Job = Good money
Sh*t grades = Minimum wage job

That's just my guess at the reason but I think it makes sense.
 
#4
Or the new one the RAF has just brought in. Multi-Job still crap pay

So if you were on the lower pay band (the non techy one) and have now become part of the new Trade Group 4 which turned us from Communications Operators to Operator Maintainers they will still pay us the same crap low wage despite forcing us through another ten weeks of teaching us to pass exams at cosford before sending us back to commcens
Its great honest!!!
 
#5
Troopers are paid on the lower bands until they have passed all the requirements to be classed as Full Crewmen Or after having served 18 months, they then get put onto the higher bands.

Officers have all done the same training at RMAS and tend to do roughly the same sort of job (although I'd argue a Troop Leader in command of 3 tanks in combat or the Plt Comd on ops does rather more than some of the more sedate tasks carried out at the rear). Therefore we all get paid the same pay scales.
 
#6
Not forgetting of course that there are differing pay spines within the Offr Corps, to reflect the fact that some jobs/experience would demand higher remuneration.

Med services, LE rates, aircrew etc...

Though most offrs do the same type of work wherever they are employed - sip gin and play golf, obviously.
 
#7
zxninerpilot said:
Not forgetting of course that there are differing pay spines within the Offr Corps, to reflect the fact that some jobs/experience would demand higher remuneration.

Med services, LE rates, aircrew etc...

It is also worth remembering that regardless of the pay band you are on as an officer, you get a rise every year regardless in addition to the cost of living, whereas in the ranks you get your pay rise on promotion and then stay on that and just end up with the cost of living every year.

The new pay review has tinkered around with this a bit, but there is no way that as a Sgt with 15 years service or a W02 with 10 you would be the same as a Captain with 15 clicks on the pay spine taking home the same as a Major halfway through or a Major with 10 years touching on the Lt Col rate of pay.

I have never seen how this could be justified, other than the argument that the pay spine for officers was designed as a career structure, but in the ranks not considered the same.

Anyone with more knowledge or understanding of the system I would welcome their input as to how it came about. :roll:
 
#8
Not strictly true intli, in the ranks there is the incremental progression system the same as we have - 2 pay rises a year. Annual pay rise and up a notch on the anniversary of promotion, until you reach the top of your increments. Then you bounce off the rev limiter until you get promoted again.
 
#10
zxninerpilot said:
Not strictly true intli, in the ranks there is the incremental progression system the same as we have - 2 pay rises a year. Annual pay rise and up a notch on the anniversary of promotion, until you reach the top of your increments. Then you bounce off the rev limiter until you get promoted again.
Thanks for the comment. As I am now out of the Regs, (TA only now) I am not up to speed on the current pay spines which was why I asked for anyone with more up to date info to comment.

However, is the Officer pay spine one continuous one or has it been changed? This was the system I was referring too, which wasn't matched by an equivalent for the ranks unless that has changed. :?:
 
#11
If it is based on graduate pay why don't they start on about £15 K a year which is a decent starting wage for a graduate civil engineer? Or on McDonalds starting wages because that is where a lot of graduates end up because a degree doesn't count for that much now, it's all about experiance.
 
#12
plant_life said:
If it is based on graduate pay why don't they start on about £15 K a year which is a decent starting wage for a graduate civil engineer? Or on McDonalds starting wages because that is where a lot of graduates end up because a degree doesn't count for that much now, it's all about experiance.
Your argument holds little weight without facts to back it up.

Figures from the Association of Graduate Careers Annual Review suggest that a typical starting salary for a first-degree graduate ranges from £13,500 to £35,000 with a median or the average salary of £18,600. The lowest starting salaries are found within the insurance industry and the public sector and the best salaries, over £20,000, in legal services, banking and finance. Other business services such as IT, transport, communications and consultancy services see typical starting salaries of £19,500. It's important to note that this is just a guide.
From http://www.thebigchoice.com/Careers/Graduate/Career_Salary.html

Bear in mind the job difference hence X-factor added to any civvy equivelant wage and I think you will find the army is paying graduates (officers) roughly the right ammount.



Edit to add bold
 
#13
What gets me with the pay is when you get to the 22 year point and are accepted for LSL. The reward for your continuing loyalty and service is to take a pay cut. As a High Band WO2 I believe that I earned my pay in that 22 years and am still worth that rate today or they would not have accepted me to the list. So how can they justify the drop to lower band? I am now on £96 instead of £105.

Also the time it takes to get money back from the Army. I paid off my LSAP 12 June. I expected they would need more time to get this sorted out so left it till the end of July, here we are near the end of Oct and they are still taking this from my pay. Bring back the RAPC.
 
#14
Because of the amount of different degrees out there now they don't count for as much as they once did. 3/4 of the people who work on my wife's team have degrees in geography etc. My wife is an HR manager, what use is a degree in geography in HR? Not all graduates officers degrees are relevant to their capbadge. I can see why a graduate with a relevant degree to their capbadge gets seniority, quicker promotion etc but why every graduate whoes education makes no difference to their job.
 
#15
plant_life said:
Because of the amount of different degrees out there now they don't count for as much as they once did. 3/4 of the people who work on my wife's team have degrees in geography etc. My wife is an HR manager, what use is a degree in geography in HR? Not all graduates officers degrees are relevant to their capbadge. I can see why a graduate with a relevant degree to their capbadge gets seniority, quicker promotion etc but why every graduate whoes education makes no difference to their job.
I agree with your sentiments and concur that there are a lot of 'mickey mouse' degree courses out there. The relevence of the degree to your regiment/corps in the army is a problem when you look at for example Infantry/Tankies/Artillery as I dont believe any universities are currently offering any courses that are particularly relevent to these jobs. Having a degree is supposed to express a level of academic ability and also life experience and maturity (not too convinced on that one myself) that are neccessary to be a leader.
 
#16
Cowhead said:
Officers have all done the same training at RMAS and tend to do roughly the same sort of job (although I'd argue a Troop Leader in command of 3 tanks in combat or the Plt Comd on ops does rather more than some of the more sedate tasks carried out at the rear). Therefore we all get paid the same pay scales.
What a whole 3 (THREE) tanks? Wow! And one of those commanded by the Tp Sgt. Furthermore, I think you'll find that not only does a Sapper Troop Comd do things at the sticky end (aswell as elsewhere) he (or she) has done a far longer and intellectually more demanding Tp Comd's Cse post RMAS and will often be commanding a troop that is as big or bigger (in terms of numbers of vehs and personnel) than an Armd Corps Sqn.
 
#17
Oh grow up, no one likes listening to self important sappers going on and on about how great they are. I merely made reference to the fact that the combat arms often work harder than the echelon troops whilst in combat. I am not doubting you probably have more CR's to write than I do, I am truly jealous.

Whilst we are on this vein of sh*t chat which you have now started, tell me how digging holes or getting your bridge to the wrong place half an hour late to just sit and watch your soldiers do all the hard work is seen as doing stuff at the "sticky end"?

How long is your Special To Arms course then? Far longer than 6 months? I don't think so...
 
#18
If by "work hard" u mean following their Tp Sgt and Cpls around wishing they had stayed at home with Mummy then I take your point. Is a "Special to Arms Course" some kind of medical programme involving the application of extra limbs?

Come back when u can count to ten and spell words bigger than "cat".
 
#19
Quality joke, do they teach you that at Frimley too? Appears they've neglected to teach humour properly aswell as map reading and armoured recon skills. Useless.

Anyway, I realise this is purile and refuse to lower myself any further by responding to your comments. Enjoy your chieftain...
 
#20
Cowhead said:
although I'd argue a Troop Leader in command of 3 tanks in combat or the Plt Comd on ops does rather more than some of the more sedate tasks carried out at the rear). Therefore we all get paid the same pay scales.
You sir, are an utter CNUT!

Would they be the same 3 heavily armoured and armed 3 tanks that SA and AT rounds simply bounce off?

The same Tp that has 20-odd well motivated tps that is NCO heavy committed to a single unified task?

Not 50-80 tps of wildy different backgrounds and abilities with differing CEGs, but who look to the same Tp HQ for leadership and direction?

I suggest you look to current op theatres and see what some of the more 'sedate' tasks actually consist of?

If you still don't get it, feel free to jump into a soft skinned vehicle, or fuel tanker, AKA mobile-firebomb-on-wheels and join in on a log op - or as you call it a 'sedate task!'
 

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