pay fcukup advise please

#1
my TA pay since june has been paid into the wrong account without my knowledge.

i normally give my payslips a cursory glance to check ive been paid the correct amount but never check the actual bank details as i have had the same account for over 20 years

However after doing the RMQ in september i was expecting a substantial amount in my bank account and when i received my payslip i assumed i had been paid and began spending. I realised too late that it had not appeared in my bank account. I do online banking so do not get statements through the post.

As soon as i realised there was a problem i raised it with my Company clerk who informed me first of all that i must have another acount. I dont. she then stated i had changed my bank account details in may. I hadnt. she passed it up to the PSAO who then attempted to threaten me by teling me if i continued with my complaint SIB would have to be brought into it. I said by all means bring them in as i wanted the money i was entitled to.

as 2 weeks have passed it now transpires another soldier with a similar sounding (but different spelling :x ) name had given a change of bank details form on the very day my account details were changed by my unit admin. The PSAO says he has contacted Glasgow and they have passed it straight back as its the units responsibility not theirs.

They have again tried to pass the buck to me but i have done nothing to cause the situation.

i have now been asked by the PSAO to go to the bank that received my pay and ask for my money back. I have responded by saying in the real world a bank will not release money to anyone who cannot prove its their account. furthermore i should not have to do this. this is their fcukup not mine.

ive asked the PSAO how long its going to take until i get my money and he says he doesnt know as hes never seen this happen before.

so where do i go from here. im literally out of pocket about £2000, am into my overdraft and being charged for it. i dont earn a lot from my civi job and need this money not least for my daughters christmas presents.

in 12 years ive never had a pay issue like this or heard of it happening.
 
#2
This isn't the first time this has happened, and it certainly won't be the last. It happened to two of my guys in the last couple of years. The common factor is wrong inputs by unit clerks. You cannot put your own account details into JPA, only manage them once they are there. It is your unit admin clerks job to put account numbers in, and any mistake in this lies with them. This does not absolve you of the responsibilty to check, though.

When it boils down to it, the Data Protection Act is quite clear, and it is the responsibilty of the data user (the MoD) to ensure that your details are correct, and your responsibilty to inform them as soon as you are aware that they have incorrect details. They can bluster and shout all they want, but the bottom line is, if you have told them, it is now their problem and their problem alone. If they pull their fingers out, they could have this resolved in a day. I personally would ring Kentigern from the Admin office, and start the wheels in motion myself.
 
#3
If you want this matter cleared up sooner rather than later then I would be in the Clerks In Tray everyday demanding to know when I will receive my money which due to their mistake I have not yet had. Also I would demand to see the evidence that I changed my bank details when the Clerk said I had. If I got no joy with that then I would take the matter further up the Chain of Command. If the PSAO threatens to bring in the SIB again tell him to do so or you will yourself. I bet that your problem will be solved within a week.
 
#4
BROMLEYBOY said:
If you want this matter cleared up sooner rather than later then I would be in the Clerks In Tray everyday demanding to know when I will receive my money which due to their mistake I have not yet had.
i call every day and just get the usual its in hand and is being sorted out

Also I would demand to see the evidence that I changed my bank details when the Clerk said I had.

there is no evidence as it didnt happen something they have now admitted. it didnt stop them spending 2 days looking for the nonexistent document

If I got no joy with that then I would take the matter further up the Chain of Command. If the PSAO threatens to bring in the SIB again tell him to do so or you will yourself.

i asked him to do so as soon as he informed me the money had been paid at which point he stopped mentioning the SIB

I bet that your problem will be solved within a week.
the PSAO concerned was supposed to be getting back to me today after meeting with a manager of the bank that mistakenly received my pay. hes hoping to be able to rectify the matter in person hoping his rank and uniform can help matters along.

in the mean time i am still waiting for my pay and the fees on my overdraft are mounting.

the impression im getting is if he cant get the money back im out of luck. i suspect hes hoping i will just accept the loss and allow it to quietly go away.

which is definitely not going to happen by the way. im going to give them a little more time then i will request an OC's interview to start with. i am ready and willing to go as high as it takes
 
#5
It was called redress of complaint, but has now changed I think to service complaints put it into writing to the PSAO with a time frame and the resolution you expect and make it formal. When it comes to taking further action, it is no good with the he said/she said scenario, as a lot of people are spineless barstewards when they are called on their verbal promise.

Do follow the chain of command though, if you get no joy through your PSAO within the expected time, then pass it up to you OC, CO etc.

Also try asking the bank to hold charges and explain to them the situation and they may give you a short term waiver.

In the meantime, until the recovery of this money happens, ask your unit for an EPIC (Early Payment In Cash).
 
#6
Make sure you confirm every phone call with an email. This gives an evidential audit trail of everything that has been said, time and date stamped. There is then no argument about what anyone has been told and/or when.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#8
Call the PSAO's bluff and phone SIB yourself saying that your pay is being fraudlently paid into someone else's bank account and that, despite numerous attempts by yourself at correcting the matter, nothing has been done, causing you to suspect a fraudulent scheme.

Downside of this is it is not going to make you popular with the PSAO. :lol:
 
#9
Auld-Yin said:
Call the PSAO's bluff and phone SIB yourself saying that your pay is being fraudlently paid into someone else's bank account and that, despite numerous attempts by yourself at correcting the matter, nothing has been done, causing you to suspect a fraudulent scheme.

Downside of this is it is not going to make you popular with the PSAO. :lol:
But if the PSAO is as jack as you describe then fuck him, he deserves all he gets. If your civvy employer owed you £2k as a result of an admin clerk mistake they'd sort it out PDQ.

Personally I'd go via the CSM / OC as appropriate, but politely informing them of your intent rather than asking what to do.
 
#10
I would advise you have a word with your RAO, ask for an EPIC payment whilst the cock up is being sorted - you should not be out of pocket due to someone else's mistake - they should not have changed any details without a signature from you!
 
#13
I would not be asking for an EPIC, I would be asking for an Advance of the money to be held on the Unit's GSA if they have such a thing. At least it won't just push the problem over to the next month.

They can hold it as a debt on their GSA until it is resolved and you pay the money back to the Unit, or if you fail to do that when it is all resolved, they can then EPIC you for the money and clear their GSA from that.

There is a lesson there to be had, always read your Statement of Earnings in full :(

Best of Luck.
 
#14
Try using the Small Claims court. At the very least, put in a formal complaint.

The army is appalling at sorting out pay queries. The variety of ways of fobbing you off and sending you on a wild goose chase is staggering. There is no sense of responsibility, it's always up to someone wlse to sort out, and then they are on leave, or sick, etc ect etc.

All they really need is to employ a pay clerk who knows what they are doing, and does it.

In civvy life, if you have a pay problems you expect to get it sorted before the next pay run. And cut off isn't the ridiculous week+ that the army have, it's the day before.
 
#15
1. Get the Pay clerk to "amend" your account details IMMEDIATELY.
2. Set up a time frame for resolution with the PSAO, making it clearly (but politely) clear that there will be consequences and ramifications if they do not resolve the issue. Do this in writing (they will understand what THAT means).
3. Inform the CSM (if non-commissioned) and your OC, the later should be Official in nature too (create the paper trail my man)
4.Having exhausted the chain of command, scream like a baby to the Monkies!

Note. YOU have a responsibility to verify that you have monies in bank account, NOT your employer! So this is NOT a man thrust of your greivance.
 
#16
IndianaDel said:
1. Get the Pay clerk to "amend" your account details IMMEDIATELY.
2. Set up a time frame for resolution with the PSAO, making it clearly (but politely) clear that there will be consequences and ramifications if they do not resolve the issue. Do this in writing (they will understand what THAT means).
3. Inform the CSM (if non-commissioned) and your OC, the later should be Official in nature too (create the paper trail my man)
4.Having exhausted the chain of command, scream like a baby to the Monkies!

Note. YOU have a responsibility to verify that you have monies in bank account, NOT your employer! So this is NOT a man thrust of your greivance.
on the day i found out i hadnt been paid i called the the pay clerk and when she read out the wrong bank details i got her to change them straight away.

i realise i made a mistake by not reading the bank details on my payslip as i said in my opening post before spending the money. that doesnt change the fact that i have been charged every day since they knew there had been a mistake of their making. i have never been so much overdrawn in my life and the longer it goes on the more worried i'm getting.

i have some savings in an ISA i could use to clear it but i really dont want to do that if i can help it.
 
#17
fusilier50 said:
IndianaDel said:
1. Get the Pay clerk to "amend" your account details IMMEDIATELY.
2. Set up a time frame for resolution with the PSAO, making it clearly (but politely) clear that there will be consequences and ramifications if they do not resolve the issue. Do this in writing (they will understand what THAT means).
3. Inform the CSM (if non-commissioned) and your OC, the later should be Official in nature too (create the paper trail my man)
4.Having exhausted the chain of command, scream like a baby to the Monkies!

Note. YOU have a responsibility to verify that you have monies in bank account, NOT your employer! So this is NOT a man thrust of your greivance.
on the day i found out i hadnt been paid i called the the pay clerk and when she read out the wrong bank details i got her to change them straight away.

i realise i made a mistake by not reading the bank details on my payslip as i said in my opening post before spending the money. that doesnt change the fact that i have been charged every day since they knew there had been a mistake of their making. i have never been so much overdrawn in my life and the longer it goes on the more worried i'm getting.

i have some savings in an ISA i could use to clear it but i really dont want to do that if i can help it.
Okay, approach your bank about he charges situation, I would imagine through your "home branch" would be the most appropriate manner. To see if the will suspend further charges, or perhaps rescind those "already" levied.
The issue of your balance is the most pressing issue you face, as well as being the one most easily rectified from your own resources. I am not seeking to rub salt in what is obviously an open wound, but you may well find the bank take the position that YOU are responsible for your balance. So do not hold your breath on any relief from your bank.
Concrete examples of possible action include : possible return of good purchased, transfer of funds from other accounts, seek releif (temporary) from friends and family until this is resolved (which it will be, if not at the speed you obviously need it to be)

Definately put stage 2. in writing, if you have not having done so already (but I assume you have)

Move seemlessly to stage 3, never under-estimate the ability of people to rattle the right cages mate!

I seriously doubt that you will have to go to Stage 4. Or if indeed there is a case for the Monkies to address, but I was never RMP so a know Noffing on that.
 
#18
Let's me straight.... you didn't ask them to change your account details. So why would you check them? It is not required of you.

Ask for help if neccesary, but write up a letter explaining ALL. And setting down what you want achieved and when.

Send to PSAO and CC to CoC.

I had to do the same for a pay foul up of mine. Pretty fcuking amazing how quickly things start to happen, when you CC the SSM, with an implied future letter going to 2ic, and then OC.

Call in SIB if it is mentioned again. And put it in the letter that you will.

The letter should also include ALL expenses being incurred by you, because of this foul up.

Surely if the lad that has been the receipiant of this money is in your unit, could he not be approached to simply give the cash to you?
 
#20
Joe_Private said:
This isn't the first time this has happened, and it certainly won't be the last. It happened to two of my guys in the last couple of years. The common factor is wrong inputs by unit clerks. You cannot put your own account details into JPA, only manage them once they are there. It is your unit admin clerks job to put account numbers in, and any mistake in this lies with them. This does not absolve you of the responsibilty to check, though.

When it boils down to it, the Data Protection Act is quite clear, and it is the responsibilty of the data user (the MoD) to ensure that your details are correct, and your responsibilty to inform them as soon as you are aware that they have incorrect details. They can bluster and shout all they want, but the bottom line is, if you have told them, it is now their problem and their problem alone. If they pull their fingers out, they could have this resolved in a day. I personally would ring Kentigern from the Admin office, and start the wheels in motion myself.


The last time i checked the change of bank details was/is an indivduals own responsability using " JPA self service" bank account information.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads