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Pay as you dine

Also seemed to be more of a team in barracks for the singlies because generally they didnt go home at the weekends.

My experience too from ten years previously. Went from Berlin to Catterick and was amazed at how empty camp was on the weekends apart from duty personnel. The only people who seemed to use the Mess were the pads.

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My experience too from ten years previously. Went from Berlin to Catterick and was amazed at how empty camp was on the weekends apart from duty personnel. The only people who seemed to use the Mess were the pads.

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An empty Catterick camp at weekends.... The lads and split Arrses going home........... Pads, off to the seaside, visiting relatives, etc
 
Personally I preferred UK.
Each to their own I suppose. For me, it was Germany (various), NI, Cyprus, then UK Mainland (various).

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Mölders 1

Old-Salt
I agree that by common consensus married men seemed to like BAOR. A good lifestyle for pads.
But I can't really see how it was better for a single guy. Drinking oneself into a stupor every weekend only looks great because of a lack of alternatives, and the benefit of rose tinted hindsight.

And we also agree on the main point I was answering to the other poster. Multi rooms are shit and outdated.

A lot of the Married Men used to drink themselves half to death back in Germany in the early 1980's. Army Pay went further in Germany than it did in the U.K. and seeing that German Beer was relatively cheap it was all but inevitable that extreme drinking went on. Not only that Cigarettes were cheaper and thus had to be rationed to stop Squaddies selling them on the cheap back in the U.K.

Finally loads of them bought Tax Free Cars while in Germany......the standing joke was you could tell who was being posted back to the U.K. because they were trying to sell their car.
 
Brunch was a great idea in Germany, in England everyone went back home, 50 years ago most singlie soldiers couldn't afford to run a car, most have one today.
Pre packed lunches from my memory contained panda pops, churches crisps and the like, you simply cant make a premium brand lunch for a quid or so.

PAYD bought the Military into the 20th century (in the 21st century). Almost no other organisation has a similar system. Even with schools dinners you pay for what you eat, but the military struggled to make it work.
To be honest at good JRMs payd,it was very good value, even lads that lived out to escape block bullshit paid for meal tickets lyneham was so good even the civvy firemen used it.
 
‘Cooking facilities’ as an alternative on introduction of PAYD appears to have been a story given on presentations to soldiers

The ‘standard’ for permanent accommodation is they the rooms be single Z type and that ‘snack preparation’ faculties be provided.
The specifics vary against a couple of block designs, but generally should be a kitchenette area with hobs, microwave, fridge and kettle or water boiler generally at 1 of the items per 6 persons.
These should be the facilities provided anyway, and give a degree of choice of how you spend under PAYD but aren’t a full kitchen. There are a few recipie books circulating on using the approved facilities

More recently a paper on “cooking in the block” went through ECAB. If the buildings are to standard then extra cooking facilities can be used

The JSP listed the entitlement for white goods “where funding is available”, so you would have had them in new builds / refurbishments, and if not then it would depend on local circumstances. They may have been supplied via welfare funds.
There was also a perception that it was policy to prevent the use of personal items - whereas the policy put the decision with local commanders

I was handed a shed load of tax payers money, identified a government contact, bought container loads and wrote a process for replacement

And that is the way to sort it.

I was on a promotion course at a very large defence establishment not very long ago; The facilities were...adequate. Laundry - fine no worries, washers and driers, even irons and ironing boards.

No Kitchens. This had been built in the fairly recent past (on PFI I believe) and the only option to eat was - PAYD, which to be fair wasn't bad, or head off camp.

That location has lots of stars visiting fairly often (I was late back from one lunch as I bumped into a former CO now 2* and he insisted on a chat...)

The point I'm trying to make however is that even at the sites where PAYD is actually decent, the folks don't get much choice. OK that locations there are options to eat out, and as a syndicate we did, but there where a couple of nights burning the midnight oil on the course to try and get ahead when a kitchen, with a toaster and some bread and butter would have made life much better.
 
It’s a matter of defining the shit food problem
It’s someone’s job on the establishment to ensure the food served is in line with the contract / JSP.

The contract requirement is for bulk produced basic food as per the core menu.

It doesn’t help when there are places where an entry in the remarks book results in bollocking the soldier

Blandford, for example. Been there, been on the end of someone thinking they were going to bollock some quaking Phase2/3 sprog.... =D=D=D
 
Blandford, for example. Been there, been on the end of someone thinking they were going to bollock some quaking Phase2/3 sprog.... =D=D=D

Heh.

I worked in Blandford for 6 months on an ADC, but arranged to live-in as home is up north. One of the Troopies courses that passed through had a night out planned, and as I socialised with them in the mess and occasionally joined in PT sessions with them heard that one of them had a duty. I offered to cover it.

I actually went down to the soldiers cookhouse and ate with the lads.

I then spoke to the Camp QM and pointed out that he needed to enforce the catering contract. I ended up in front of a fairly senior member of the corps for being 'impertinent.' I challenged him to eat in the soldiers cookhouse and decide if the food was acceptable.

To be fair he accepted, we went down that lunch, and I got him his food (the staff had no idea he was coming).

I was thanked for standing up to the Camp QM, and he had an interview without coffee. Sometimes being a STAB who doesn't give a Sh*t for the status quo helps...

I assume that the QMs staff went back to the old tricks...
 
Heh.

I worked in Blandford for 6 months on an ADC, but arranged to live-in as home is up north. One of the Troopies courses that passed through had a night out planned, and as I socialised with them in the mess and occasionally joined in PT sessions with them heard that one of them had a duty. I offered to cover it.

I actually went down to the soldiers cookhouse and ate with the lads.

I then spoke to the Camp QM and pointed out that he needed to enforce the catering contract. I ended up in front of a fairly senior member of the corps for being 'impertinent.' I challenged him to eat in the soldiers cookhouse and decide if the food was acceptable.

To be fair he accepted, we went down that lunch, and I got him his food (the staff had no idea he was coming).

I was thanked for standing up to the Camp QM, and he had an interview without coffee. Sometimes being a STAB who doesn't give a Sh*t for the status quo helps...

I assume that the QMs staff went back to the old tricks...
It’s not as if the required standard is hard to achieve and enforce
 
Now singlies have more money to spend on booze at functions because they aren't automatically paying for their food.

£1.75 (iirc, it was over 30 years ago) was hardly bank breaking sum of money. And the three meals per day we got for that were - generally - pretty good.

It was never better value for the singlies unless the singlie regularly ate it the cook house. The majority didnt, thats why we have all the rose tinted glasses view of eating high quality food all the time under the old system.

Must have been different years. In every unit I served in, the majority did. The problem with "high quality" is that it is a)subjective and b) strawman, to a degree. What you and I define as high quality could differ vastly. But, in general, we had pretty good food. The standard could vary depending on who was cooking. Cookhouse standards could vary from year to year depending on who had been posted in/out. Same as being on Ex. We had a great sloppo, Scouse, in 1985. But SHQ poached him, and we got an 18yr old sprog, Pete, who tried to serve egg banjos as a main meal.... he soon learned.

I miss Sat brunch - handmade to order custom omellete, scrambled eggs, suasages, tomatoes, mushrooms, black pudding and a huge mug of tea, reading the papers. Possibly an area where the masterchef could use creative accounting and use a budget for two meals for 600 blokes to serve one meal.

On the half dozen occasions I ate at Blandford (1990-1994) the food was awesome. ACC chefs. By 2017 it was shiite - PAYD civvy caterers.


The joke about 1 sausage partly stems from chefs only having a limited amount of food due to the numbers wanted fed. Normally in training establishments.
If everyone had gone to the cook house all the time the quantity (and possibly quality) would have been shit.

No, it comes from the number of soldiers they had a budget to cater for. "One egg per GD Marine" is a phrase that will always stick with me.

Your last line should read "if every unit was fully manned and every soldier had gone to the cook house all the time the quantity would have been shit". But actually, I'm not sure the quality would have suffered; cook chefs would have produced good food, bad chefs bad. What would have been more pronounced is the availabilty of all menu choices; chef would produce say 150 portions each of 4 mains; if one choice was unpopular, the last 15o soldiers through would have been disappointed.
 
I then spoke to the Camp QM and pointed out that he needed to enforce the catering contract. I ended up in front of a fairly senior member of the corps for being 'impertinent.' I challenged him to eat in the soldiers cookhouse and decide if the food was acceptable.

To be fair he accepted, we went down that lunch, and I got him his food (the staff had no idea he was coming).

I was thanked for standing up to the Camp QM, and he had an interview without coffee. Sometimes being a STAB who doesn't give a Sh*t for the status quo helps...

We may know each other... And yes, being a 54 yr old STAB ex-Reg who doesn't give a flying fcuk for a career he doesn't have helps :D
 
Heh.

I worked in Blandford for 6 months on an ADC, but arranged to live-in as home is up north. One of the Troopies courses that passed through had a night out planned, and as I socialised with them in the mess and occasionally joined in PT sessions with them heard that one of them had a duty. I offered to cover it.

I actually went down to the soldiers cookhouse and ate with the lads.

I then spoke to the Camp QM and pointed out that he needed to enforce the catering contract. I ended up in front of a fairly senior member of the corps for being 'impertinent.' I challenged him to eat in the soldiers cookhouse and decide if the food was acceptable.

To be fair he accepted, we went down that lunch, and I got him his food (the staff had no idea he was coming).

I was thanked for standing up to the Camp QM, and he had an interview without coffee. Sometimes being a STAB who doesn't give a Sh*t for the status quo helps...

I assume that the QMs staff went back to the old tricks...
I was in Blandford when PAYD was instigated, I went in to the Cookhouse for dinner and there was knack all left on the hot plate other than curry and rice. I looked at the menu board on the wall and the hot plate and saw that steak was on both. Me “Excuse me Chef, could I have steak and chips please? Well done?“
Chef “There’s none left. It’s just what’s on the hot plate left”
Me “I don’t like curry, could I have steak and chips please?”
Chef (getting pissed off by now) “There isn’t any left”
Me “This is Pay As You Dine now isn’t it?”
Chef “Yes it is”
Me “In that case, you’re contractually bound to provide me with a meal of my choosing from your published menu which I then pay for. I would like steak and chips please, as advertised on your menu here”
I got steak and chips.
Blokes who I sat with “How the fxxk did you get steak? There was fxxk all left when we came in”
Me “ This is PAYD now. If it’s on the menu that they put on the hot plate they have to provide you with that choice, even if it’s 5 minutes before closing. This steak probably got rubbed around the toilet and kicked across the car park but I got what I asked for. Don’t accept shit from these ******* ever again “
 
Heh.

I worked in Blandford for 6 months on an ADC, but arranged to live-in as home is up north. One of the Troopies courses that passed through had a night out planned, and as I socialised with them in the mess and occasionally joined in PT sessions with them heard that one of them had a duty. I offered to cover it.

I actually went down to the soldiers cookhouse and ate with the lads.

I then spoke to the Camp QM and pointed out that he needed to enforce the catering contract. I ended up in front of a fairly senior member of the corps for being 'impertinent.' I challenged him to eat in the soldiers cookhouse and decide if the food was acceptable.

To be fair he accepted, we went down that lunch, and I got him his food (the staff had no idea he was coming).

I was thanked for standing up to the Camp QM, and he had an interview without coffee. Sometimes being a STAB who doesn't give a Sh*t for the status quo helps...

I assume that the QMs staff went back to the old tricks...
What year was this?
 
Blandford, for example. Been there, been on the end of someone thinking they were going to bollock some quaking Phase2/3 sprog.... =D=D=D
Unless you're a Gurkha, I think the food actually improved in the JRM to the extent that they've tried to stop people chinning the messes off for the JRM.
 
I remember in the old system in the seventies and eighties there seemed to be quite a few items from the 10 man ration packs cycled through, such as stewed steak and chicken supreme made into pies, plus compo sausages. Not complaining as I loved the stuff. I suppose that doesn't happen now in PAYD?
 
I remember in the old system in the seventies and eighties there seemed to be quite a few items from the 10 man ration packs cycled through, such as stewed steak and chicken supreme made into pies, plus compo sausages. Not complaining as I loved the stuff. I suppose that doesn't happen now in PAYD?
The contractor in the kitchen doesnt have access to the QMs for the ration packs (unless someones stealing them)
 
What year was this?
07 I think, it was the week where the Master Chef brought in PAYD, retired from the RLC then started as the Catering Manager in the JRC the next morning. The same guy who brought out all the cardboard recycling bins. When I went back a couple of years later, that was the case. A lot of Seniors would eat in the JRC, as I recall the Mess Chef was one of the sons of someone on camp
 

dan_brown

War Hero
Many moons ago (as a lowly rank) i was at a Mess meeting and brought up the standard of duty supper - shit.

Because we were the last meal before the duty chef went home, the food was always the quickest and easiest to cook - one time one particular chef decided to flash fry meat pies (with minimal 'meat').

I brought this up in the meeting and WO Catering showed his arse to me.

When leaving the meeting the OF3 pulled me aside and said that i had "embarrassed the WO" - didn't give 2 fucks at the time and duty supper did get better.
 

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