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Pay as you dine

stacker1

On ROPS
On ROPs
Where, and what, are these people cooking? My last unit, with the best singly accn I've had still only provided one 4 ring hob and under counter fridge for every 25-30 people?

Regardless of whether or not someone is 'spastic' it's not a great setup to cook efficient nutritious food of an evening.
Most of the Gutersloh new builds had a kitchen.
Most SLAM blocks are in sections of 6 rooms. normally with either a kitchen or at least a utility room in each section. Does everyone have it? No. Do quite a few have it? Yes.
 

stacker1

On ROPS
On ROPs
You tell me.

You were the one who was bitching about it previously.
I must have given a number for you to say far too many. How about telling us all what this number was.
 
Where, and what, are these people cooking? My last unit, with the best singly accn I've had still only provided one 4 ring hob and under counter fridge for every 25-30 people?

Regardless of whether or not someone is 'spastic' it's not a great setup to cook efficient nutritious food of an evening.
I had the same in a few blocks. I also had a veg steamer pan set, a griddle pan, a wok and a frying pan. The same pans I took on exercise in the back of my Det. I don’t mind saying, I could cook up all sorts of healthy grub. When I couldn’t be arsed, I ate in the cookhouse. It’s not rockets, on pay day, make sure you put your grub money to one side, and buy a fxcking cook book!!
 
Soldiers of today do not need to be forced to pay for food that they dont eat.

The vast majority didn't, the money was concentrated into 15 or so meals rather than 21, so each meal was of vastly better quality.

Until 6 months ago I was living in during the week. I would have missed 9 of the 21 meals a week and would much rather paid DFC than suffer the poor quality of PAYD.
 
PAYD is, in theory, fair and a great idea.

I have been in both PAYD and deductions based units - I have spent much if my recent time as an instructor in training units.

The problem I have had with PAYD facilities?

They have been set up without the corresponding cooking facilities for the soldiers, therefore there is often very limited or no alternative...
 

stacker1

On ROPS
On ROPs
The vast majority didn't, the money was concentrated into 15 or so meals rather than 21, so each meal was of vastly better quality.

Until 6 months ago I was living in during the week. I would have missed 9 of the 21 meals a week and would much rather paid DFC than suffer the poor quality of PAYD.

You are confusing shit food with PAYD, rather than the management of PAYD.
I think the last time it was brought up on ARRSE the stats were something like (on average) only 9 of the 21 meals were eaten on the old system, when you consider Germany was still going st the time (so weekends had a lot of soldiers on camp) plus the duty bellthronks who broke after millionaires weekends and ate in the cook house every day until payday, that is a shit stat.
 
You are confusing shit food with PAYD, rather than the management of PAYD.
I think the last time it was brought up on ARRSE the stats were something like (on average) only 9 of the 21 meals were eaten on the old system, when you consider Germany was still going st the time (so weekends had a lot of soldiers on camp) plus the duty bellthronks who broke after millionaires weekends and ate in the cook house every day until payday, that is a shit stat.

That is a poor stat, and one that certainly does my argument no favours. That said some more innovative units, pre PAYD, were doing things to improve things. Examples I saw were offering a cooked to order brunch at weekends available 0700-1300. The other was pre order packed lunches or takeaway cartons which allowed folk to get away to the gym or whatever at lunch without missing a meal.

We're obviously not going to agree, and it's now very much a moot point, but personally the move to PAYD was a huge retrograde step.
 
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stacker1

On ROPS
On ROPs
That is a poor stat, and one that certainly does my argument no favours. That said some more innovative units, pre PAYD, were doing things to improve things. Examples I saw were offering a cooked to order brunch at weekends available 0700-1300. The other was pre order packed lunches or takeaway cartons which allowed folk to get away to the gym or whatever at lunch without missing a meal.

We're obviously not going to agree, and it's now very much a moot point, but personally the move to PAYD was a huge retrograde step.
Brunch was a great idea in Germany, in England everyone went back home, 50 years ago most singlie soldiers couldn't afford to run a car, most have one today.
Pre packed lunches from my memory contained panda pops, churches crisps and the like, you simply cant make a premium brand lunch for a quid or so.

PAYD bought the Military into the 20th century (in the 21st century). Almost no other organisation has a similar system. Even with schools dinners you pay for what you eat, but the military struggled to make it work.
 
Brunch was a great idea in Germany, in England everyone went back home, 50 years ago most singlie soldiers couldn't afford to run a car, most have one today.
Pre packed lunches from my memory contained panda pops, churches crisps and the like, you simply cant make a premium brand lunch for a quid or so.

PAYD bought the Military into the 20th century (in the 21st century). Almost no other organisation has a similar system. Even with schools dinners you pay for what you eat, but the military struggled to make it work.
Not in first years, but the point is a fair one. Most junior school lunch fees are flat rate per day, have the salad, same price as meat and 2 veg.

Secondary that changes, pay for what you eat. If 11 year olds understand it...

Having said that, most 11 year olds will get a days money at a time, at most 1 day hungry, if the admin biff goes out and spends up on millionaires weekend then that is a lot longer to manage for.

I did like the system on one camp I visited (can't remember which one) with a pre paid card, the pay office could set up and auto deduction from pay/credit to the card, this was then used in the cookhouse. You could top up the card or use normal payment methods too. The use was optional but for the serious admin biffs would be strongly recommended by the SSM....
 
PAYD is, in theory, fair and a great idea.

I have been in both PAYD and deductions based units - I have spent much if my recent time as an instructor in training units.

The problem I have had with PAYD facilities?

They have been set up without the corresponding cooking facilities for the soldiers, therefore there is often very limited or no alternative...
‘Cooking facilities’ as an alternative on introduction of PAYD appears to have been a story given on presentations to soldiers

The ‘standard’ for permanent accommodation is they the rooms be single Z type and that ‘snack preparation’ faculties be provided.
The specifics vary against a couple of block designs, but generally should be a kitchenette area with hobs, microwave, fridge and kettle or water boiler generally at 1 of the items per 6 persons.
These should be the facilities provided anyway, and give a degree of choice of how you spend under PAYD but aren’t a full kitchen. There are a few recipie books circulating on using the approved facilities

More recently a paper on “cooking in the block” went through ECAB. If the buildings are to standard then extra cooking facilities can be used

The JSP listed the entitlement for white goods “where funding is available”, so you would have had them in new builds / refurbishments, and if not then it would depend on local circumstances. They may have been supplied via welfare funds.
There was also a perception that it was policy to prevent the use of personal items - whereas the policy put the decision with local commanders

I was handed a shed load of tax payers money, identified a government contact, bought container loads and wrote a process for replacement
 
Back in the day in W Berlin, a typical shift cycle for us was 3 days, 3 nights, sleep day, 2 off, 3 training/available, then back on days. Out of the 6 days/nights 'on duty', a JNCO could expect 3-4 of them to be Sector Duties (Wall Patrol, Tiergarten Police Post, ACP Bravo or ACP Charlie), which required you to depart Stadium Bks before the cookhouse opened, or return well after breakfast had finished. I made a fortune on my missed meal claims and some months never even touched my pay. Very sad when all these stopped on Unification in Oct 90, and the only duties were normal garrison policing ones working normal hours out of Stadium Bks, with no scope for missing meals regularly.

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Strange how this was the next big thing when I left towards the end of 2005, but it seems like they are still trying to sort it out nearly 15 years later.
 
The catering is only part of it. The monopoly in all retail is truly shocking £1.05 for a can of coke in the only shop within a 10 mile radius is not value for money whatever way you look st it.
Not wrong on the monopoly thing. When PAYD was rolled out in BFG, apparently the MOD agreed that all of the little non-official eateries that used to do light lunches during the week and cracking breakfasts on the weekend, such as YMCA, TocH, Red Shield, Sally Army, etc. were to close their catering facilities or face closure; thereby protecting the PAYD facilities. Its almost as if they new that Joe Squaddie would migrate elsewhere for his scoff and took steps to curtail it. Shocking, if true.

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Not wrong on the monopoly thing. When PAYD was rolled out in BFG, apparently the MOD agreed that all of the little non-official eateries that used to do light lunches during the week and cracking breakfasts on the weekend, such as YMCA, TocH, Red Shield, Sally Army, etc. were to close their catering facilities or face closure; thereby protecting the PAYD facilities. Its almost as if they new that Joe Squaddie would migrate elsewhere for his scoff and took steps to curtail it. Shocking, if true.

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That’s exactly what happened, every bar was closed too so people had to drink in the NAAFI bar, or the Mess. The Mess prices were on average 5euro cent cheaper than the NAAFI bar, in order to justify being cheaper
 

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