Pay as you dine

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
Can anyone tell me how this is going ? How is the food which is being sold to the troops?
Are some troops having problems with pay as you dine and how does it work on overseas posting ?

I must admit we couldn't have held the Russians at bay and afforded to payd in BAOR during the 70's. Not with the price of booze being what it was .
 

NemoIII

War Hero
It’s sill sh*t, but nothing compared to what FAM is going to be.
"You can buy or rent near your place of work"

Aye because most camps/garrisons have large amount of housing just lying unused, in the private market.

They Armys insistence to post people every 2-4 years, while contributing such a tiny amount to to the serving personnel is going to be a retention nightmare.

Every time I see stuff about it I think "how is this even a good thing? How can people stand up and say this is the way ahead?"
 
It’s sill sh*t, but nothing compared to what FAM is going to be.
From the fragments of information being given out, I understand that officers will no longer be entitled to a big(ger) house based on their rank.
That could be interesting.
And amusing.
 
"You can buy or rent near your place of work"

Aye because most camps/garrisons have large amount of housing just lying unused, in the private market.

They Armys insistence to post people every 2-4 years, while contributing such a tiny amount to to the serving personnel is going to be a retention nightmare.

Every time I see stuff about it I think "how is this even a good thing? How can people stand up and say this is the way ahead?"
It could be a good thing, given the Army record though it probably wont be.

My wife was in the Canadian forces, they have a similar scheme it works fairly well, she owned her own place at one posting and sold it upon moving without any major hassle.
Whether it will work when Pte Admincase in the 1st Loamshire signs a lease for 10 years on a flat in Mayfair remains to be seen.
 

Tuffty

War Hero
Hands up, I was one of those that bleated about having to pay for our food back in the 70/80s when in Germany as we mostly drank till closing in the NAAFI Bar and then went down town for a scoff (Old 4 Div, Hammersmith Barracks (Serbian Restaurant just down the road)). Once PAYD came in I soon realised what a crock of shite the Civ Cooks were and just wished I had kept my gob shut and enjoyed what was on the whole good scoff turned out by the Army Slops at a very decent price. I must apologise to todays serving soldiers and hang my head in shame
 
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PAYD - ranges from utterly dreadful, to quite nice.

But you will pay some money for it: mostly you get what you pay for.

FAM - we picked as a trial area the Naval Base where we were actively telling people they would be based there their entire career. We've moved nearly all the training establishment there as well. I presume that'll be the case for the Army's FAM sites too...
 
Hands up, I was one of those that bleated about having to pay for our food back in the 70/80s when in Germany as we mostly drank till closing in the NAAFI Bar and then went down town for a scoff (Old 4 Div, Hammersmith Barracks (Serbian Restaurant just down the road)). Once PAYD came in I soon realised what a crock of shite the Civ Cooks were and just wished I had kept my god shut and enjoyed what was on the whole good scoff turned out by the Army Slops at a very decent price. I must apologise to todays serving soldiers and hang my head in shame
I work on a camp that has civvie chefs, the food is very good, but then the British military didnt have a hand in the contracts.
 
I have said this before I will repeat it.
I served from 1974 till 1986 and am very glad I did.
I don't think I would want to serve now if I was young enough.
 
Theres a wider question here, its not PAYD but catering.

PAYD - This means you pay for the meal when you are fed.
Previously the MoD paid for the ingredients, paid for the cooking and served it for free.
Back in the long distant past, married soldiers gained an additional allowance to buy their own food because they would eat in their MQs

PAYD was introduced and the ingredients allowance was added to soldiers pay.
At first only the ingredients amount was added to pay, but the situation changed as far as HMRC were concerned - instead of the MoD buying raw ingredients for £x the soldiers were given an allowance of £x, but were buying cooked food so VAT was due.
Kitchens could charge only the designated price, so for every £1 ingredients they should have charged £1.20. But by charging £1 the tax man took nearly 17p - making the assumption that the price was 83p plus 20% = 99.6p, rounded to £1.
So the caterer lost 17p per £1 - Either they scrimped on ingredients and the appointed person in the unit wasn't checking the proper food was provided or the company took the hit and tried to push you to the non core menu or mark up other prices.
The AFPRB were told about the mistake, and they added an allowance for VAT into your PAYD allowance. e.g £1.20
If the caterer had been providing the correct ingredients at a loss, soldiers then complained that the price had gone up with no more on the plate.

Choice
With your PAYD allowance in your pocket you can choose how to spend it.
If you take all meals in the diner, then the core menu option will equal the defined ingredients as per JSP
If you take all meals in a cafe etc then the PAYD allowance won't stretch as you are now also paying that cafes overheads and wages - in site diners & messes the MoD pays the contractor their bid rate for the wages etc, and the MoD pays to maintain the building, electricity, gas bills etc.
If you shop in a supermarket you can buy the ingredients and cook for yourself. Not all SLA is to the same standard.
In Z type the specifications are for you to be provided with microwave, fridge, kettle, hob.
Hobs are not available in a number of places due to legacy buildings and fire compliance etc
Use of personal cooking items are dependant on local policy (and some locations have brought in a standard list of approved extra items - once the fire standards are compliant)


Portion size this is specified in JSPs. e.g. One sausage
Before PAYD the kitchen had a food allowance based on the number of people in the unit and the footfall they should have been getting.
Due to people eating elsewhere (those who complained they were not getting their meals in the diner and caused PAYD to happen) and perhaps a little creative accounting, the cooks would only cook what was likely to be eaten rather than what was on the books.
The extra would then go into 2 sausages, or steak etc once in a while.
If everybody ate in the kitchen for every meal then there was not flexibility so you only got one sausage.
With PAYD the core menu ingredients are paid for from the PAYD price you pay from your PAYD allowance.
But just like going to a truckers cafe, you can get a cheap breakfast (one egg, one sausage, one bacon etc) for a cheap price (core menu item), for a bit more £ you can get the bigger breakfast (two eggs, two sausages etc) and also you can get any number of items either swapped or for any additional price per item

If the core menu portions are not in line with JSP then both the caterer and the unit rep are not doing their jobs.



Military / civilian / contractor catering Many equate PAYD to contract catering, this are not directly linked.
Back in the olden days it was military staff, then the soldiers moved out and civilians were employed. They were later TUPEd out to contractors.
Contractorisation came before PAYD - the staff behind the counter had a different badge on their uniform and served you free food.
You may have got one or two sausages.
When PAYD was introduced the contractor then had to operate a till - and had manage the portions properly.
Thats often why people connect contractorisation with PAYD - because they didn't notice the badge of the person serving them until they were told they could have one sausage and had to pay for it

Under PAYD you may still have a military chef in the back doing cooking. This is part of the core catering manpower. Military chefs are needed for when you go abroad without contractors, when they are not abroad they need a Kitchen to work in. So that crappy Sodexo chef might really be a crappy Army chef

Crap / competent / good cooks A crap cook will cook a crap meal, a competent cook will cook a decent meal, a good cook will cook a good meal.
There are all of the above among contract, civilian and military cooks.
Sometimes the bitter old ex soldier behind the counter thinks that you should be served shit just as they were back in their day.





How is PAYD going? Its now working - buy the core menu option and pay with your PAYD allowance.
How is the food? That depends on how competent the staff are behind the counter and whether anyone is pulling a fast one on the ingredients with the unit turning a blind eye or not caring
 
TBF to them, in the 80s a good few WO i/c JRM would sit down with the last ones in the mess at the end of the day and warn of the dangers of PAYD or as they put it save as you starve the week after payday weekend
 

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