Pay armed forces more

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by johnboyzzz, Sep 2, 2009.

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    The junior ranks of the armed forces should get an immediate £6,000 pay rise to help boost morale, the Lib Dems say.

    It was "shameful" that many privates on their first tour of duty earned less than police constables and junior firefighters, leader Nick Clegg said.

    He said the move, costing about £300m, could be part funded by cutting 10,000 "desk" jobs at the Ministry of Defence.

    Ministers said pay deals for the armed forces had been among the best in the public sector in the past three years.

    All military personnel were awarded a 2.8% pay rise earlier this year after the government accepted the recommendations of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body.

    As a result, the basic pay of a private on operations rose to between £16,681 and £25,887.


    But opposition parties have continued to press for higher pay and better accommodation to reflect the armed forces continuous involvement in conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2003.

    The Lib Dems said there was "widespread dissatisfaction" about pay levels among the lowest ranks at a time when young men and women were being asked daily to put their lives on the line.

    We can't continue to reward the bravery of lions with peanuts
    Nick Clegg, Lib Dem leader

    They are proposing a £6,000 increase in basic pay for entry-level privates in the Army and their equivalents in the other services.

    This, they claim, would lift the annual salary of the lowest-paid privates from £16,681 to £22,680.

    They are also calling for longer-serving privates and lance corporals to get a £3,000 rise, which would take their average annual pay up to about £25,000.

    Corporals, sergeants and higher NCO ranks should get a £1,000 increase, equivalent to an extra £20-30 a week.

    Mr Clegg said poor pay levels were having a "dreadful impact" on morale in the armed forces.

    Job savings

    "Nobody can put a price on the sacrifices our troops make on our behalf but it is clear to everyone that pay levels are shamefully low for the lower ranks," he said.

    "We can't continue to reward the bravery of lions with peanuts. The Liberal Democrats will ensure that no soldier, sailor or airman goes into harm's way on less basic pay than a new recruit to the police or fire service."

    The salary increases can be paid for from within the Ministry of Defence's existing budget, the party argues.

    The estimated £300m required to fund the move should come from savings at the MoD, primarily from job cuts.

    The Lib Dems said it was "ridiculous" that the MoD employed two "desk-based" employees for every one serving member of personnel and the department could make do with 10,000 fewer civilian employees it deems "non-essential".
  2. Nice-sounding but hopelessly unrealistic idea from the Lib-Dems-for two reasons really:
    1)After the next Election,regardless of who gains office,some serious financial horse-trading will have to happen at the MoD and the Treasury.This will NOT include vast pay rises for the Armed Forces,however strongly you and I feel that such pay increases are more than justified(I personally believe that a generous pay rise for the Armed Forces is long overdue).
    2)Due to the increase in numbers coming into the Armed Forces(mainly but not entirely due to the recession) the MoD and the Treasury clearly feel that there is no real need to offer any further inducements to joining, or retaining the services of existing personnel who may feel more reluctant to leave,again due to the recession.
    Once the economy picks up again,however,I believe the situation will change as the employment situation improves.
  3. Or.... Don't pay them more, but don't cut the Army by 20% over the next decade when they're supposed to be in Afghan until 2050. :roll:
  4. And where exactly are these 10,000 employees to come from. Now I am no great fan of civil serpents but I would imaging any surplus would have been cut years ago. Or will there be anothe "restructuring".

    I agree with the pay rise - cut some quangos! We spend £64 billion a year on them.
  5. But surely we need the potato council?
  6. Schaden

    Schaden LE Book Reviewer

    I'm going out on a limb here but I'm pretty sure that you could cut 10,000 off the payroll of the MoD and nobody would notice they were gone.
  7. least, until the next round of projects go wrong.

    And then the papers can write lots of articles about why things go wrong in the MOD!

  8. ..Of pivotal importance :roll:
  9. Shock!Horror! CUT THE QUANGOS???You can't do that;think of the wonderful work they do for our 'elective dictatorship' in greatly reducing accountability!! 8O
  10. Tim Collins is on BBC1 Breakfast talking about the wider issues like the quality of the living accommodation for both singlies and pads.

  11. Good on Clegg for putting a line in the sand. Not convinced that the 10,000 jobs from the MOD CS would necessarily assist.

    Will be interesting to see how both Labour and Tory supporters respond.
  12. spike7451

    spike7451 RIP

    Col Tim is on BBC at the mo,saying the average squaddie would rather have decent accomodation (a lot of accom at present is'nt fit for assylum seekers legaly) & more respect at home.
    In a way he's right but an extra £6k,imho,would allow for a servicman to put more money aside & have a better quality of life away from the mob.
  13. Given the average CS salary is £20K per year, we'd save about £200,000,000 - enough to give a £6K payrise to about
    33,000 junior personnel.

    Now firstly the CS doesnt have 10,000 spare desk jobs doing nothing - as has been seen here before, the majority of the MOD CS is nothing to do with office work, its manual labour or scientists, or teachers etc. MOD has already shed 44,000 jobs in the last 12 years. By all means cut further, but you need to ask yourself, what is it that you no longer want to do, in order to pay junior military staff more, quite often to do a job that can be more cheaply done by civil servants - I'm thinking particularly a lot of the lance jack / corporal slots in London and elsewhere that are essentially 'admin' roles. Given the capitation rates for this, would it not be better, if you were serious about saving money to move junior military staff out of HQs and replace them with E band civil servants? Sure you'd lose flexibility, but the savings would be vast and pay for a pay rise.
  14. So, you give the most junior soldiers an extra £6,000. What about the LCpls, Cpls etc. Do they get a corresponding pay rise, or will you just accept a pay CUT to be promoted? I can't see that working, can you?

    This idea would cost a hell of a lot more that £300M.
  15. Ah, but you all did not realise that the Broon the Loon, will give us all pay rises just before an election, then say theres even a lesser chance of getting helicopters in Afgan.