PAX insurance premiums to rise by nearly 30%!

#1
PAX have announced that they are going to raise their premiums by 29% from 1 April.

Feck me! Is that steep or what? I've been paying for 10 units of cover for years, that's now going to cost me another £11.00 a month.

Looks like I'm gonna have to do some comparisons around the place now. Before I didn't think about paying for it, but now I'll have to look at it.

Do you think that this is a way of clawing back money that has been lost on bad investments by the parent company. They know that we need it and quite a few people won't even see it nor check their pay statements!

Don't get me wrong, if they'd put it up by a little, that's one thing, but nearly a third more! Get to feck!
 
#2
Infiltrator said:
Looks like I'm gonna have to do some comparisons around the place now. Before I didn't think about paying for it, but now I'll have to look at it.
The problem being that it will be difficult to find the level of cover that you get with PAX.
 
#3
After decades of living on payments by soldiers who did not claim the shareholders want to keep up the profits to them now the company is paying out for what it claimed it would provide.

Its all about profit.
 
#4
GunnersQuadrant said:
After decades of living on payments by soldiers who did not claim the shareholders want to keep up the profits to them now the company is paying out for what it claimed it would provide.

Its all about profit.
I suspect that may not be too far from the truth. They have taken the premiums for many years and not had to pay too much out. Now they go through a rough time and everyone suffers for it.

I suppose that it would be too much to ask for to have a government/MOD type scheme that was run on a not for profit basis? Let's be honest about it, if the MOD paid decent compo for accidents on duty/on ops then we could have normal insurance for the rest of it and now have to pay throught the nose for this!

Sorry, it's just really got up my nose. 29% is a huge increase and it's being played off as something that's almost not important. We are almost a captive audience for this product!
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#5
GunnersQuadrant said:
After decades of living on payments by soldiers who did not claim the shareholders want to keep up the profits to them now the company is paying out for what it claimed it would provide.

Its all about profit.
Declaration first: I am not involved with PAX, but am involved in the industry, and have seen the loss records for PAX some years ago, pre 2003.

At the time, PAX was making a level of profit acceptable by industry standards. OK, but by no means exceptional. The premiums were set based on the levels of claims activity at the time - remember, soldiers did, and still do, die or get injured in any number of non-operational ways. Car crashes, motor bike accidents, training accidents etc.

The rating would have allowed for minor peaks in claims activity, with the idea that these peaks would be "smoothed out" over time. The extra peak in claims over Granby for instance would have been absorbed by the reasonable loss records over the years before and after.

Now, we have been in a state of constant high level operations since 2001/2002 (Veritas?) with overall casualty rates maintaining a much higher level IN ADDITION TO the usual non-operational casualty rates.

In simple terms, there is no way that the price can stay the same, and drastic measures will be needed to bring the PAX product back to an acceptable level of profit.

Why profit? Because it is provided by a commercial organisation, not a charity. Commercial groups demand profit (over an reasonable period of time) or else they cut the product.

No profit, no PAX...or any other commercially provided insurance product.
 
#6
The PAX insurance scheme will introduce an increase in premium for personal accident from 1 April 2009.



From the defence Intranet last week.

Service personnel en route to theatre (Archive picture) [Picture: Graeme Main]

The PAX Scheme offers members of the Armed Forces and their families personal accident and life insurance cover. Aon Ltd is the contracted administrator of the PAX schemes and AIG UK Limited is the provider of the personal accident insurance. The scheme is specifically tailored to meet the needs of service personnel and their families. It provides financial compensation in the event of accidental death and permanent disabilities, on and off duty, worldwide including active service. PAX also includes benefits for other specified injuries which are not permanent but can have a short term impact on lifestyle or finances. These include fractures to the arm, wrist, leg and ankle or burns. It also covers hospitalisation following bodily injury

But this morning on the BBC Buisness News it was reported that AIG were asking to be bailed out of trouble by the US Govt. So what would be the affect on PAX if AIG UK Ltd parent company AIG, went belly up :?
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#7
I have just received this e-mail from PAX via the CoC. Quite heavy premium rises...

PAX said:
PAX INSURANCE PREMIUM INCREASE



1. PAX will introduce a price increase for its personal accident insurance product with effect from 01 Apr 09. All current policy holders will be informed of the changes by the provider and further information is available on the attached DIN and DIB.


2. The revised monthly premiums for a single unit are as follows:

a. PAX individual - £3.55 per unit (previously £2.75 per unit)

b. PAX Family - £5.00 per unit (previously £3.90)

3. Current policy holders will automatically be charged at the new rate from 01 Apr 09.
 
#8
The_Duke said:
GunnersQuadrant said:
After decades of living on payments by soldiers who did not claim the shareholders want to keep up the profits to them now the company is paying out for what it claimed it would provide.

Its all about profit.
Declaration first: I am not involved with PAX, but am involved in the industry, and have seen the loss records for PAX some years ago, pre 2003.

At the time, PAX was making a level of profit acceptable by industry standards. OK, but by no means exceptional. The premiums were set based on the levels of claims activity at the time - remember, soldiers did, and still do, die or get injured in any number of non-operational ways. Car crashes, motor bike accidents, training accidents etc.

The rating would have allowed for minor peaks in claims activity, with the idea that these peaks would be "smoothed out" over time. The extra peak in claims over Granby for instance would have been absorbed by the reasonable loss records over the years before and after.

Now, we have been in a state of constant high level operations since 2001/2002 (Veritas?) with overall casualty rates maintaining a much higher level IN ADDITION TO the usual non-operational casualty rates.

In simple terms, there is no way that the price can stay the same, and drastic measures will be needed to bring the PAX product back to an acceptable level of profit.

Why profit? Because it is provided by a commercial organisation, not a charity. Commercial groups demand profit (over an reasonable period of time) or else they cut the product.

No profit, no PAX...or any other commercially provided insurance product.
I fully understand your argument, and I fully accept that a commercial company needs to make a profit. My only concern in all this, is that the only way that I found out about it is that I happend to be on DII and saw it on the Defence Intranet. How many service members will not know until after the money has gone out of their pay? How many will notice?

I'm not being funny, but, I am currently on tour, embedded with the army. It has to be said that many are not exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer! I'm not being patronising here, but the fact is that some of these lads struggle to do even basic maths. Now then, it strikes me that this increase is hardly being well advertised to individuals. The fact that it is on the defence intranet doesn't cut it. Out of the thousands of people out here I'd say that maybe 60% simply don't have access to the Intranet. They won't know, they probably won't even notice.

I really belive that the way that this has been done is a disgrace. If Sky were to put up it's charges by nearly a third, but did so by only advertising it on its website how would you feel when the money went out of the bank the next month? PAX should have to write to each and every one of its customers and tell them direct that they have increased their charges by such an amount.

I'll lay odds of a penny to a pound of sh1t that they only way that PAX can get away with such a large increase is because money is deducted at source, before the soldier, sailor, airman see's it. How many juniors do we know that actually check their deductions properly? How many actually know how much they should be paying? Don't blame the individual here, many simply don't have the nouse to be able to do it. it's not their fault, and PAX are taking advantage of it.

Many of the guys and girls out here on Telic don't even get a pay statement until it's maybe already at least a month or so out of date...what chance they of being able to cancel or downgrade their insurance?

I think it's wrong, I think that maybe a small increase in line with inflation might have been acceptable to do in this manner, but not a whopping great increase like this.

For shame PAX! I see you for what you are! Don't think we are all idiots!
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#10
The email copied by Legs on the other thread states that PAX will be notifying all policy holders directly, and details posted on DII. Are you sure that your post has caught up with you yet, and the postal address held by PAX is correct and up to date?
 
#11
The_Duke said:
The email copied by Legs on the other thread states that PAX will be notifying all policy holders directly, and details posted on DII. Are you sure that your post has caught up with you yet, and the postal address held by PAX is correct and up to date?


All the details they hold are correct, we will just have to wait and see how long it takes to be told.
 
#12
Roger that, but they are asking for money to stop them from going under, like most of the big finance companies have so far in the states. By raising the premiums, is not going to save them. So what is going to happen to those who have taken out PAX, will their polocies be honoured if the worse happens.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#13
PAX, in line with many other providers, offers a rolling monthly renewal product.

You do not buy an annual policy, you buy it month by month provided you pay the premium each month. It is an events occuring policy, so you need to have insurance at the time that you have the accident, and you then have a given period of time in which to notify them that you have had an accident and intend to make a claim.

The AIG group of companies are certainly in difficulties at the moment, and the general insurance market speculation that I hear is that they are likely to continue to be shored up until it becomes impossible for the US Govt to carry on, at which point they will be sold or put into liquidation, possibly piecemeal. However, PAX is provided by AIG UK Ltd, and is covered by all of the usual FSA and UK insurance regulations and securities for policy holders.

What does this mean to you?

In essence, each month is a new policy. If you reach the end of that month and have not had an accident likely to lead to a claim, then all is fine. The only time a problem will arrise is if AIG UK ceases to trade in the same month that you have an accident. You will then become a claimant of a non-trading company, and at worst case the Financial Services Compensation Scheme will step up as last resort. You should expect 100% of the first GBP2,000 and 90% of any claims outstanding thereafter. Link below shows some details:

http://www.fscs.org.uk/consumer/key_facts/

The decision is yours to make on a month by month basis. Carry on, and run the risk of claiming off a government backed scheme in the event that AIG UK suffers a catastrophic failure, or shop around and hope that your new provider remains sound. I would advise you to seek the advice of an independent expert in order to be absolutely sure of your position, and to have the relative merits of the various products and insurers explained to you.
 
#14
AIG have just announced a 67 billion dollar loss, so that will explain the rises.
 
#15
I'm currently pretty miffed at the whole pax thing. I've had 15 units and Family cover PAX insurance since its inception, and up until last summer had not needed to use it.

I was injured in an accident in Iraq towards the end of last year and have had to have major surgery incuding the fitment of an artificial disc in my neck. The PAX terms and conditions for injuries don't cover this injury I am now being told by the PAX help desk - but I may be able to claim for my nights in hospital (although they are debating whether transfer to Selly Oak from Basrah by aeromed consitutes being part of the 5 days continious hospitilisation).

So I have an accident, suffer a serious injury (which is recognised by the AFCS) but PAX doesn't appear to cover it apparantly because I didn't break a bone or loose a limb! ....and yes I am challenging this!
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#16
Crusty(LE),

Sorry to hear about your injury.

As said before, I do not work for PAX, and am sure that PAXBloke will be along soon to respond personally.

That said - you bought a policy which has a clearly defined schedule of benefits which it will pay in the event of certain injuries being sustained.

If the injury you sustained is not shown on the schedule of disability then PAX are well within the contractual rights offered by the contract not to pay you any benefits. The contract is an agreement both ways, and binding to both. You agree to pay the premiums and they agree to pay in the event that you suffer one of the injuries shown in the schedule.

If it is not clearly shown in the schedule, there is no requirement to pay.

Everyone should read and understand what the contract says, and realise that it will only pay for exactly what it says it will. What you think it ought to pay for will not be taken into consideration. I appreciate that this probably seems like a harsh line to take, but if they agree to pay you outside of the contract terms, where should they stop? The premiums are based on the claims arising from the benefits covered. If that is to be extended to pay out every time someone has an injury, regardless of whether it is an insured injury or not, expect the policy to be too expensive for anyone to buy.
 
#18
I got a nice mailshot from PAX in the post today stating the new rates that are going to be charged, so if I got one, then I am sure every other policy holder should be getting one.

No doubt it will be sent to the unit that you are based at because PAX do not have your personal mailing address unless you have had to correspond with them at some point.

Well, when I said it was nice I was lying, it said we are going to ask for more money for the same cover we provide at the moment - thanks.
 
#19
What is the competition?

Trouble is, as someone else said earlier in the thread, there are few out there that will offer comparable cover.

That means they have us over a barrel. However, I am disappointed that PAX have chosen to do this. The risk has not gone up over the last few years and this is pure profiteering. I know times are hard but this is not acceptable.

I see no justifiable reason why the MOD should be sanguine about this increase. I hope that it is looking around and offering the business PAX has to other potential partners. I could hack a small increase but 30% is obscene.

Paxbloke - understandably you seem to be keeping a low profile on this one. Would you care to give us the party line on this one? It had better be good.........
 
#20
Infiltrator said:
The_Duke said:
GunnersQuadrant said:
After decades of living on payments by soldiers who did not claim the shareholders want to keep up the profits to them now the company is paying out for what it claimed it would provide.

Its all about profit.
Declaration first: I am not involved with PAX, but am involved in the industry, and have seen the loss records for PAX some years ago, pre 2003.

At the time, PAX was making a level of profit acceptable by industry standards. OK, but by no means exceptional. The premiums were set based on the levels of claims activity at the time - remember, soldiers did, and still do, die or get injured in any number of non-operational ways. Car crashes, motor bike accidents, training accidents etc.

The rating would have allowed for minor peaks in claims activity, with the idea that these peaks would be "smoothed out" over time. The extra peak in claims over Granby for instance would have been absorbed by the reasonable loss records over the years before and after.

Now, we have been in a state of constant high level operations since 2001/2002 (Veritas?) with overall casualty rates maintaining a much higher level IN ADDITION TO the usual non-operational casualty rates.

In simple terms, there is no way that the price can stay the same, and drastic measures will be needed to bring the PAX product back to an acceptable level of profit.

Why profit? Because it is provided by a commercial organisation, not a charity. Commercial groups demand profit (over an reasonable period of time) or else they cut the product.

No profit, no PAX...or any other commercially provided insurance product.
I fully understand your argument, and I fully accept that a commercial company needs to make a profit. My only concern in all this, is that the only way that I found out about it is that I happend to be on DII and saw it on the Defence Intranet. How many service members will not know until after the money has gone out of their pay? How many will notice?

I'm not being funny, but, I am currently on tour, embedded with the army. It has to be said that many are not exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer! I'm not being patronising here, but the fact is that some of these lads struggle to do even basic maths. Now then, it strikes me that this increase is hardly being well advertised to individuals. The fact that it is on the defence intranet doesn't cut it. Out of the thousands of people out here I'd say that maybe 60% simply don't have access to the Intranet. They won't know, they probably won't even notice.

Many of the guys and girls out here on Telic don't even get a pay statement until it's maybe already at least a month or so out of date...what chance they of being able to cancel or downgrade their insurance?
1. got a letter from pax today detailling the changes,
2. u can get pay statements through army net, u dont need paper statements to check your pay statements or the intranet.
3. ive been on 2 Telics and i know for a fact that there is access to welfare internet facilities or wireless where u can log on to army net
4. if a soldier does not check his pay statements, that is HIS fault for being a fuckgni idiot, does he want the army to wipe his arse as well!!!

thanks
4.
 

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