Pawns in a Catch 22 - Why are we turning on our own?

#1
Why are we turning on our own? What have they done wrong? Why should they be judged by the standards of other times and conflicts? Why do we attack them for not being the sharpest knife in the draw?

Who's really at fault here? The persons that caused the situation? The persons responding to it? The persons not directly involved in it and jumping on the bandwagon for the ride or to offset their own loss and grief? Or is the fault that of the media that feeds the society we are part of and which we help shape and form.

Turning on our own disgusts me, when whatever fault there may be isn't theirs. It reminds me of a pack of savage dogs turning on the weakest, a middle eastern trait, and not very British...

So, why are we turning on our own who are pawns in a catch 22 situation, is it because they are there?
 
#2
All of the above!

The armchair experts safe in the royal oak or red lion have all got an opinion, no-one who isn`t in posession of all the facts, or been there at the time is in any position to coment on an experience suffered by others.
The press will stir to shift papers, and the TV will boost ratings.
IMHO if anyone is remiss in all this , it is the MOD for not shielding their own from the press untilall was clear and known.

Rant over
 
#3
Kurgen,

I respect your opinion but that implied logic could be applied to any situation such as.."Nobody knew what was going through Quisling's mind at the.." etc etc.

I'm fairly confident in stating that probably very few matelots consider her "one of their own" at this point in time.She has entered an exclusive club now that separates her from most serving and ex serving members.Its not a club many aspire to be in and most who enter only live to regret it due to being ostracised by their former colleagues.

Just my opinion.
 
#4
Quisling was a different case.
I dont know what went on out there, so I cant cast judgement on how they acted.
my point was the MOD should have shielded them from the press until some more of the facts were known, them having huge sums of money waved under their noses , then the MOD saying they couldnt talk to journos , days after they had , it all smacks of mismanagement
 
#5
She really is not a good advert for the Navy. She certainly came across as a few sandwiches short of a picnic. I'm an ex matelot and I feel embarrassed about the situation and by her obvious lack of intelligence.
 
#6
Maybe I'm just too cynical but this doesn't pass the sniff test. Someone at a very high level has set this up and all focus has been shifted from where the blame lies and is instead now trained on a low-level female sailor who can barely string an intelligent sentence together.

None of this could have happened without the active encouragement of MoD. It's just smoke and mirrors to protect the real culprits.

RM
 
#8
well we have seen the politicalisation of the civil service too get liabour out of the headlines when it suits, is it little wonder that swiss n tone thought to finish the job.

That said i think they all should have used some more sense espically the officers.

Im so relived i am 1CivDiv now as i see what has been done over the years to the armed forces by the snakes in power.

edited for mongo spelling :oops:
 
#10
Ho hum....... UK plc is a significant number of steps behind in this propaganda campaign (and yes, thats what I tend to do for a living). Tedious explanations can be provided if required. However, waiving the rules (rather than ruling the waves) and letting these poor sods go public for a wad of dosh is indicative of some very shallow thinking in Whitehall. Our folk say "we were terrorised and feared for our lives". Iran then pops up some more footage of chess-playing matelots, goodie bag diving and some of the nastiest suits east of Suez (but a lot better than most of the folk in the region get to wear) and asks the eastern world who to believe.
The selling of stories is, almost as an aside, an interesting exposition of the moral and cultural vacuum that the East accuses the West of displaying.... coming to the non-red top papers in the near future.
Sorry team, but we lost this one and part of me has to admire old Armoured Dinner Jacket and the IRG.
 
#11
No matter how anyone tries to spin it, it's an embarrasing time to be British, the politicians and MOD have also been weak and our standards have been shown to be very low.

We are a weak, limp wristed country with about as much backbone as france.

Now all we can do is sit back and wait, whilst everyone with an axe to grind against the British takes a pop at our national interests while we roll over.

I am totally disalusioned with the state of the UK, I can't see any reason to stay here anymore. Being British doesn't mean anything anymore , it used to mean a stiff upper lip, getting on with it without getting emotional, and strengh , the ability to punch well above our weight.

The 15 are not to blame in the least, they are a product of our times, why should they risk their lives for a country that would rather side with Iran than support them, they are the product of the playstation generation, were critism is bullying and you can wear trainers on parade if you have a bo-bo, their not allowed to be treated harshly in training anymore so why would they be able to stand up to being threatained by the republican gaurd with death.

The question I would ask though, however we try and spin it about circumstances, and not being there, could anyone imagine the commando's of WW2 or the falklands acting in german and argie propaganda films.

My Grandad on my mothers side died before I was born, he was tortured and starved by the japs and died a young man not long after WW2 ended , I wonder what he would have made of all of this.
 
#12
Also, since this pathetic incident Iran now knows we are totally toothless, and is cracking on big time with it's nuclear ambitions, and they couldn't care less now , this is very dangerous as Iran could also step up it's war by proxy against us in Iraq, by acting weakly on this incident we will now probably have to go to war when war could have been avoided by a show of strengh.

I think Winston Churchill said "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last".

He also said "One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. "

This pathetic limp wristedness in both our own country and abroad will end in WW3.
 
#13
What I can't understand is the story itself. Who would want to admit that they put up no resistance and blurted out, wrote anything the Iranians asked. Surely they must have realised they were being exploited and on returning to the UK, realised they were used to further the political ambitions of Iran who wants to be a strong regional power.

They knew what they were doing with the media, the MoD simply condoned the damaging act. We have taken a hit as a credible military force and these events have tainted the efforts underway in Iraq and Afghanistan. MoD corporate image (PR tossers) needs a reel in.

I can't wait for the book and subsequent blockbuster film starring Vanessa Feltz as the warmongering Leading Seaman and lead whistleblower.

Rant complete.
 
#14
FaceLikeAPingPongBall said:
What have they done wrong?
If you really don't know what they've done wrong, then you and people who think like you are part of the reason it happened.

The Greatest raid of all: "Sergeant Thomas Durrant VC, who stuck to the twin Lewis guns of the little launch and died after being hit a total of 25 times." He didn't bother to see if he could surrender and get a media deal did he.
 
#15
mark1234 said:
No matter how anyone tries to spin it, it's an embarrasing time to be British, the politicians and MOD have also been weak and our standards have been shown to be very low.

We are a weak, limp wristed country with about as much backbone as france.
Bad as the garlic munching surrender-monkeys? Thats a bit harsh isn't it? Proud to be English me, and my emigration papers to leave are being frantically signed now
 
#16
The whole episode has served Bliar very nicely, distracting attention from his government's failure to properly resource the Armed Forces whilst putting them in harm's way.

Allowing service personnel to tell their stories to the tabloids (especially those that are pro-Neu Arbeit) also helps to chip away at the hard-won reputation of the forces, reducing the public's appreciation and sympathy for them. Ever noticed that every time Bliar is criticised for defence cuts, the Sun runs a 'drunken squaddie rampage' story?
 
#17
The Sun? Ahh....that'll be the 'forces favourite paper' then? 'Supporting our boys' whilst taking every opportunity to slate us. Bad as the feckin Mirror..tw*ts
 
#18
I'm simply stunned that people can ask what they did wrong & why they are being turned on. (1) Don't try to brazen it out with the Iranians, just hand over your rifle and surrender. (2) Write grovelling apologetic letters admitting to doing whatever the other side told you to. (3) Appear all smiley on TV playing table tennis then tell us it was hell on earth in captivity. (4) Pocket several years' worth of salary for telling your version of 'How I failed dismally to perform my duty and uphold the finest traditions of the Services'.

The number of times she said "I/We had no option...." Really? Did you stop to think?

That's just a concise version of my vitriol. I'd love to hear what their comrades from 3 Cdo Bde think about this, bearing in mind the losses and level of violence they've confronted in Helmand (for more than 13 days) about which none of them can speak for profit, unlike the merry 15.

Yes, they have been mismanaged and the "they can/they can't" saga over selling stories shows the pathetic atempts to spin some form of success for the Govt from a situation in which they were completely outmaneuvered. Plenty of egg on plebnty of faces, I feel.

Faye Turney for the next series of Big Brother, anyone? Might give Jade Goody a run for her money.......
 
#19
The_Last_Prophet said:
Faye Turney for the next series of Big Brother, anyone? Might give Jade Goody a run for her money.......
Jade Goody




Faye Turney




You said the word 'run' in a sentence with these two in it. Heresy.
 
#20
REgards said:
mark1234 said:
No matter how anyone tries to spin it, it's an embarrasing time to be British, the politicians and MOD have also been weak and our standards have been shown to be very low.

We are a weak, limp wristed country with about as much backbone as france.
Bad as the garlic munching surrender-monkeys? Thats a bit harsh isn't it? Proud to be English me, and my emigration papers to leave are being frantically signed now
haven't you heard mate, we're now the fish and chips eating surrender monkeys.
 

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