Paul Keetch MP

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Percy, Mar 1, 2004.

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  1. I note that when commenting on Iraq in the weekend papers that Paul Keetch (Liberal Democrat Defence spokesman) says 'Our troops in Iraq, unlike most other deployments overseas, face the daily prospect of losing their lives for Tony Blair and the Government'.

    So Pte Kitulagoda KIA 28 Jan in Afghanistan is figment of our imagination then.
     
  2. Are you deliberately being pedantic? Surely the point he was making is obvious? The war in Iraq has caused far more casualties than any other for American and British troops since Vietnam (in the case of the yanks), and for the Brits, I would imagine since WW2 (though don't go mad if I'm wrong, have more been lost in NI over the course of the troubles?). Anyway the point is, the chances of loss of life are higher in Iraq at the present time than any other current theatre. I doubt the MP was trying to detract from the sacrifices made in other areas.
    Though as he is a member of parliament, we'll never know what he meant.
     
  3. HLS

    HLS Old-Salt

  4. Misfire! Wait 30 then make safe! That is a strong reaction to a valid point. Keetch denigrated the efforts - and the risks - involved on other operations.
    Casualties from the Falklands well over 200 (around the 280 mark). NI has inflicted hundreds and hundreds of deaths. Furthermore US casualties - while over the 500 mark - are nowhere near the levels of Vietnam - where 500 deaths/month would have been considered average.

    have you got shares in the Liberal Party?
     
  5. ATL misses the point. Nothing a politician says has an obvious meaning. Scoring political points by telling lies/half truths is exactly the sort of thing MPs should be avoiding (you would think that they would learn). I am sure the MP would never knowingly detract from our sacrifices - it is a shame he can't be arrsed to get his facts right - and pedantry doesn't come into it.

    Anyway I for one am a tad tired of Iraq being talked about as if it is the only operation. I have said elsewhere that what we achieved should be a source of immense pride not continual whinging. Those on other operations like Afghanistan and even Ireland could be forgiven if they think they are the forgotten few.
     
  6. HLS, thanks for the link, I hope that you were not accusing me of belittling the sacrifices made in any way.
    Grownups beware, you make a valid point, but as far as I'm aware the figures you quote are not fact, more estimate. Is the Iraq war the highest casualty inducing operation the British Army has been involved in in recent years or not? I don't know, I was guessing as well, based on an article I read recently in the Times with regard to American casualties compared to previous wars. And no I have no shares in the Liberal party, almost witty though.
    Percy, I now have a better understanding of the point you were making and I agree with you. The comment I posted earlier was not in anyway intended to contradict your argument; now that I've got my head round it.
     
  7. Keetch is one of the very few MP's that persistently supports the Armed Forces.

    I seem to remember a series of posts here about redundancies? That showed Keetch hammering Hoon every chance he got. I also seem to remember him having a pop about CIS and CBA before they became major press issues.
     
  8. I think it's a bit rapid to bash him for not mentioning Afghanistan - you might as well moan that he didn't go through the whole orbat dishing out thanks and pats on the head. Does he say that troops in Afghanistan are not risking their lives? No. Would anyone deny that Iraq is one of the most dangerous current postings next to Afghanistan and probably NI? Especially after today's spectacular - 100+ dead on the holiest day of the Shi'ite year.
     
  9. Yeah...but remember he's the MP for Hereford and gets many perks of the job i.e. frequent hob-nobbing visits to our moustachioed, long-sideburned sandy-beret friends. But he is still pretty good in comparison to most of those self serving barristers in Westminster.
     
  10. no they are not in his constituency now :wink:
     
  11. 99.9% of politicians are self serving weasels anyway, so their opinions, either valid or vacuous should all be regarded with suspicion :D
     
  12. IS THERE SOMETHING CAPLIN DONT WANT HIM TO KNOW :lol:

    Manning Control

    Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many staff were employed in the last year in administering manning control reviews in the Army; how much money was spent; and if he will make a statement. [162729]



    Mr. Caplin: The information requested is not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost.


    Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many AFB6848 forms have been signed in each year since 1995; and if he will make a statement. [162730]



    Mr. Caplin: Statistics on how many AFB6848 are signed are not held centrally for longer than one year. During the period 1 March 2003 to 29 February 2004, some 28,000 AFB6848 were signed.
     
  13. SOMTHING NOT RIGHT HERE :lol:

    Manning Control Points


    Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many military and civilian staff from APC Glasgow were involved in the administration of manning control points in (a) 1997 and (b) 2003, broken down by (i) rank and (ii) pay scale; and if he will make a statement. [167838]



    Mr. Caplin: I refer the hon. Member to the answer given on 25 March 2004, Official Report, column 946W, which reported that the information requested was not held centrally and could be provided only at a disproportionate cost.


    Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many amendment to terms of service forms have been signed by army personnel who have been listed for manning control reviews in each of the last eight years; and if he will make a statement. [167839]



    Mr. Caplin: I refer the hon. Member to my answer of 25 March 2004, Official Report, column 946W, which reported that AFB6848 forms are not held centrally for longer than a year.

    Of the 28,000 AFB6848 forms signed during the period 1 March 2003 to 29 February 2004, the numbers signed by those listed for Manning Control Point review are not separately identified and could be provided only at disproportionate cost.


    Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many soldiers who were (a) discharged under QR 9.413, (b) issued with manning control warning certificates and (c) discharged due to QR 9.414 who signed AFB130A were listed as P7 on their last recorded medical assessment, broken down for each of the last eight years; and if he will make a statement. [167840]



    Mr. Caplin: The information requested at (a) and (c) is as follows:

    Soldiers graded as P7 discharged under:
    (a) QR 9.413 (b) QR 9.414
    1996 11 8
    1997 15 16
    1998 9 20
    1999 (5)Under 5 13
    2000 (5)Under 5 29
    2001 (5)Under 5 29
    2002 0 37
    2003 0 57




    (5) Actual figures cannot be provided without breaching disclosure and confidentiality policy.





    28 Apr 2004 : Column 994W


    The number issued with manning control warning certificates is not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost.


    Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what forms are used in the process of manning control; and in what order they are used. [167842]



    Mr. Caplin: Soldiers being considered for discharge by Manning Control Point are sent a letter up to 18 months beforehand. They are asked to sign a certificate to agree that they have been warned about their potential discharge.

    If a soldier is to be discharged, the parent unit is informed by letter from the appropriate Manning and Career Management Division. The unit will then raise an Army Form B130A Application for the Compulsory Premature Discharge of a Soldier, which is completed by both the Commanding Officer and the individual concerned.

    http://pages.123-reg.co.uk/eve3-37327/exparachuteregimentwebsite/id118.html
     
  14. lest we forget: current NI manpower at a little over 13,500 - still our biggest operational drop at the moment......despite the "peace in our time"....crap from Bliar etc etc...