Passport to Trouble - Easy Entry Scheme

#1
Today's press reports al-Qaeda may have been days away from carrying out co-ordinated attacks, on British shopping centres. Also claimed in the News is at "least three in every four terror plots currently under investigation in the UK have their roots in Pakistan". Allegedly.

Notwithstanding the countless "Mosques", Cafes, Takeaways, and hordes of immigrants now hanging around our street corners, we are now directed elsewhere, towards loopholes in our University sector.

Whether accurate or not, allegations have been made that this country hands out (abusing the system) unwarranted visas, indiscriminately, to foreign (and questionable) students, and that ministers may have admitted that student visas "were the major loophole in Britain's border controls". Possibly, there are widespread bogus Colleges out there.

If true, misguided Marxist Colleges and Uni's may actually be encouraging undesirables and aiding illegal students, through their love everybody mentality and "let's have everyone for our multiculural society" mantra.

If immigration checks are not working, or even too lax, and undesirables can sneak in as "students", or work in CAB's accessing valuable information systems, when will the wets, lazy officials and the liberals wake up to what they are actually fostering and encouraging here?

By all accounts, Easter could have been much , much worse for some.
 

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
we only have the Brown regime's word for this. while I dont doubt that the threat has disappeared by any means, if they put out a press release saying that the sky was blue I'd have problems believing it.

as for them 'waking up'? possibly - Blears has just told the MCB where to get off (in a quite uncharacteristic display of spine - not what you expect from these robbing gits at all - http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/04/exclusive-blears-tells-mcb-deputy-chair.html ) but as to whether common sense will break out? I wouldnt hold your breath.
 
#3
BBC News 1530. Patrick Mercer just made some valid points about border controls. Migration Watch has called recent events in the Northwest "a wake up call". Apparently, over 9500 Pakistani "students" were given Visas last year.

Migration Watch, racial profiling and negative stereotyping aside, there seems to be good reason for concern. It's the TV News of the day and not to be ignored.
 
#4
If true, misguided Marxist Colleges and Uni's may actually be encouraging undesirables and aiding illegal students, through their love everybody mentality and "let's have everyone for our multiculural society" mantra.
Everybody on here seems to love banging the "university lecturers are all wooly lefties" drum; but mine were completely the opposite (and most of them were too professional to reveal any political allegiances). If universities are helping people overstay their visa, it's probably because they make most of their money out of international students.
 
#5
"Migration Watch, racial profiling and negative stereotyping aside, there seems to be good reason for concern. It's the TV News of the day and not to be ignored."
 
#6
Personally I am not worried about the number of student visas being handed out to Pakistani nationals - that is not the issue. The issue is the vetting of Pakistani students who apply for visas.
 
#8
Whet said:
Personally I am not worried about the number of student visas being handed out to Pakistani nationals - that is not the issue. The issue is the vetting of Pakistani students who apply for visas.
Personally, I am. Rational immigration policies and border controls that actually work, instead of sloppy liberalism and lax officialdom which apparently put us at risk. There are other more reasonable, economic, populous, security and financial considerations besides worrying about being overly PC, innit.
 
#9
OldStripey said:
If true, misguided Marxist Colleges and Uni's may actually be encouraging undesirables and aiding illegal students, through their love everybody mentality and "let's have everyone for our multiculural society" mantra.
I've worked in Higher Education as an Admissions Officer (mainly dealing with International Students) for 7 years now and I've yet to come across a Marxist academic institution. Most of them are run by that most bastardly and bastardised 'profession', the financial manager - guess where their priorities lie?. Add in the fact that most Admissions Officers at universities aren't directly involved in teaching and you're way off base with that one.

The problem in the HE system is simply overcapacity. Too many of the new institutions can't recruit sufficient home students, Funding Council grants or research funding to keep themselves afloat without International Students and the full whack fees they pay.

Recruiting International Students has its risks - not least of all because of the astounding levels of corruption, fraud and forgery in certain parts of the world - but there are some pretty basic steps that you can take to ensure that the people you're bringing into the country are genuine students coming here to study and not to conduct terrorist plots or bugger off into the underground labour market. They do, however, require that you have sufficient trained staff doing the job and too few institutions want to spend the money.

One thing the Points-Based Visa System will achieve is to force university managements out of their stupor and compel them to actually invest in their student recruitment and admissions processes. If it's tackled seriously it'll result in a better quality of student for the institution as well as a reduced risk of terrorism or corruption for society. With any luck it'll also thin out a few of the degree mills that have been operating far too freely for ages.
 
#10
I took the tube from LHR in to King's Cross a couple of weeks ago. I'd obviously timed my journey perfectly to coincide with the PIA arrival, as the carriage was absolutely full of new arrivals who were not on a flying visit due to the sizable amount of luggage in evidence. Every single one was IC4 male youth, and to a man they did not look like individuals excited by the fact they'd arrived in another country. The banter (in Urdu) was guarded. The looks were sullen and downright hostile. I'd even go as far as to use the word hatred - the mood was that palpable. And then there was me: cropped swede, dessies and a bergen. If looks could kill. It's the first time I've ever felt uncomfortable in the nation's capital... ever.

My point? Without tarring every Pakistani with the same brush, I did wonder just WTF their problem was, and if it really was that much of a problem (cause there was no smiley faces in my direction that's for sure), then (again) WTF were they doing in MY country? I think if I'd have used the same body language on a train out of Karachi or Islamabad then I would've received - and deserved - a kicking. Just what is it that they're 'learning' that cannot be 'learnt' in Pakistan and (thus) necessitates a trip to Blighty?

Baffled of Melton Mowbray
 
#11
BuckFelize said:
Just what is it that they're 'learning' that cannot be 'learnt' in Pakistan and (thus) necessitates a trip to Blighty?
In many senses, nothing. They can, after all, get the same textbooks off Amazon if they want.

What in most cases they can't get back home is the quality of teaching staff and resources that UK institutions have been building up for donkeys now. Add in the world dominance of the English language and they're coming here because we're victims of our own success. We've got it, we're selling it, they want it and can pay. Simple as.
 
#12
BuckFelize said:
I took the tube from LHR in to King's Cross a couple of weeks ago. I'd obviously timed my journey perfectly to coincide with the PIA arrival, as the carriage was absolutely full of new arrivals who were not on a flying visit due to the sizable amount of luggage in evidence. Every single one was IC4 male youth, and to a man they did not look like individuals excited by the fact they'd arrived in another country. The banter (in Urdu) was guarded. The looks were sullen and downright hostile. I'd even go as far as to use the word hatred - the mood was that palpable. And then there was me: cropped swede, dessies and a bergen. If looks could kill. It's the first time I've ever felt uncomfortable in the nation's capital... ever.

My point? Without tarring every Pakistani with the same brush, I did wonder just WTF their problem was, and if it really was that much of a problem (cause there was no smiley faces in my direction that's for sure), then (again) WTF were they doing in MY country? I think if I'd have used the same body language on a train out of Karachi or Islamabad then I would've received - and deserved - a kicking. Just what is it that they're 'learning' that cannot be 'learnt' in Pakistan and (thus) necessitates a trip to Blighty?

Baffled of Melton Mowbray
"The looks were sullen and downright hostile. I'd even go as far as to use the word hatred".

Yes, so would I. But not in the way you mean.

"WTF were they doing in MY country? I think if I'd have used the same body language on a train out of Karachi or Islamabad then I would've received - and deserved - a kicking".

I rest my case.
 
#13
And your 'case' is? I emphasised the 'MY' country because... er... it is - I was born and raised here. I'm not a bigoted moron. I'm well-travelled and an advocate of 'when in Rome'. I'm just baffled as the the motives of some of these 'students'. I'm quite familiar with foreign student mentality. They're mainly cosmopolitan, polite, impeccably mannered and affable - and knock our 'overseas ambassadors' into a cocked hat. The same could not be said for the occupants of that tube carriage, 99% of whom looked ready to scream 'Allah Akhbar!' and whip my swede off! Or was it just me being paranoid and having an off day?
 
#14
There's no Marxism in British Uni's? Really....

"Marxist Society begins at Queen Mary, University of London "
http://www.socialist.net/marxist-society-queen-mary-university-of-london.htm

And rather than facing up to facts, let's just play the race card or blame all the admission- and financial controllers while we're at it.

There appear to be problems, and putting equality and diversity before commonsense security, helps dissidents from "you know where" because we have to be awfully nice, tolerant, and not paranoid at all. Still, none of them regard us with disdain, there's no hatred of us Brits by foreign nationals among us, nor do they resent our troops. People don't violently demonstrate in Luton, against returning regiments, either.

Well, that's alright then.
 
#15
"Marxist Society begins at Queen Mary, University of London "
www.socialist.net/marx...london.htm
I don't know if you actually read the article, but that's just some poxy little student group. They don't have any say on the actual running of the university.

Over the course of the Fresher’s Fair members of the Marxist Society manned a stall on campus, attracting 54 students to sign up to be members
54 members out of a 15,000 student body: Clearly a real hotbed of dissent there.
 
#16
OldStripey said:
And rather than facing up to facts, let's just play the race card or blame all the admission- and financial controllers while we're at it.
Er, I don't know if you noticed, but I said I am one of those Admissions Controllers and work in an HEI. I know exactly where the purse strings are tied and by whom. If bogus students get in it's because the vetting process hasn't been carried out properly and that's usually because it's being done by people who don't know what they're doing and have too many cases to look at properly.

Don't like the message? So what? That won't change what it is.

Blaming Marxists just shows how little you know about the subject.
 
#17
OldStripey said:
Whether accurate or not, allegations have been made that this country hands out (abusing the system) unwarranted visas, indiscriminately, to foreign (and questionable) students, and that ministers may have admitted that student visas "were the major loophole in Britain's border controls". Possibly, there are widespread bogus Colleges out there.
Major loophole? Did they not put student visas on their POSSIBLE WAYS WE COULD BE BLOWN UP list?

Pakistani students + redicalisation + extremism + need of a target + UK would be good, they feed and house you too + how do we get in? + hey presto! student visa + this is easy + incompetent British Government + + + + +........

I remember during the 80s when the IRA were an every day threat and sending out young lads with pick handles to man a sentry box and glancing at a three mile perimeter running behind the accomodation block with no fence and just hoping the IRA had better thigns to do that night.

We never learn.
 
#18
PandaLOVE said:
Major loophole? Did they not put student visas on their POSSIBLE WAYS WE COULD BE BLOWN UP list?
Oh, they did. What they didn't do was check to make sure there was any way of ensuring that the education establishments were legit.

That would have cost money, see?
 
#19
smartascarrots said:
OldStripey said:
And rather than facing up to facts, let's just play the race card or blame all the admission- and financial controllers while we're at it.
Er, I don't know if you noticed, but I said I am one of those Admissions Controllers and work in an HEI. I know exactly where the purse strings are tied and by whom. If bogus students get in it's because the vetting process hasn't been carried out properly and that's usually because it's being done by people who don't know what they're doing and have too many cases to look at properly.

Don't like the message? So what? That won't change what it is.

Blaming Marxists just shows how little you know about the subject.
Patronising aren't you? And for your information, alleged extremism in Universities is nothing new, and if you've read the papers since 2006, up until recently: ""We must accept this problem is widespread and underestimated. Unless clear and decisive action against campus extremism is taken, the security situation in the UK can only deteriorate." Sleeping were they?

Your position does not give you rights to lord it over things, either. Taking this subject personally, or not, is up to you. By the way, we should Never, ever, assume.... and "Er" someone with a degree in Social Policy forced to read Das Kapital in German and English, might have an idea about Marxism, and in fact, someone who lived in Germany (Berlin) during the late eightiies might even have a pretty good grasp of it. You decide. Like it or not, we all have views. Forums are for frank and considered exchanges, assuming one has the answer to everything might be just a little presumptuous. Your academic and defensive position might even be challenged, you never know.
 
#20
OldStripey said:
Patronising aren't you?
Generally speaking I try not to be. If I think it’s deserved then I try to be as good at it as I can.

OldStripey said:
And for your information, alleged extremism in Universities is nothing new, and if you've read the papers since 2006, up until recently: ""We must accept this problem is widespread and underestimated. Unless clear and decisive action against campus extremism is taken, the security situation in the UK can only deteriorate." Sleeping were they?
Really? No shit, Sherlock. Again, you’re trying to assume you know the situation better than someone who’s faced with it every working day. And amazingly, when challenged about this assumption you seem to take the position that I’m the arrogant one.

Show me where I said it wasn’t a problem or that we shouldn’t be trying to weed them out. My arguments are that: the idea that decisions in HE admissions are made to comply with some left-wing agenda is laughable because power is in the hands of people who care about money, not ideology; and that the root cause of the problem has been penny-pinching on behalf of those same people. They are almost never academics, but have been mostly parachuted in from the business world on the strength of being able to count in really imaginative ways. Trust me, it would be a vast improvement if the academics actually were in charge because at least they are open to reasoned argument and evidence, unlike the fannies we have running things now.

The reason why so many people have got through the vetting system is that there has not been enough money spent on training and recruiting people who can spot a forged credential or a bunco student. That’s happened because the funding universities receive is tied to either research or teaching depending on source, and spending it on administration draws excitable headlines in the papers.

OldStripey said:
Your position does not give you rights to lord it over things, either. Taking this subject personally, or not, is up to you. By the way, we should Never, ever, assume.... and "Er" someone with a degree in Social Policy forced to read Das Kapital in German and English, might have an idea about Marxism, and in fact, someone who lived in Germany (Berlin) during the late eightiies might even have a pretty good grasp of it.
It doesn’t matter a single toss if you’ve read up on Marxism, lived under it or even if you sucked Marx’s decomposing cock for a five-bob bet. If you say that Universities in the UK are run by Marxists you clearly have not the slightest clue what you’re talking about. Expect to have your opinions ridiculed accordingly.

OldStripey said:
You decide. Like it or not, we all have views. Forums are for frank and considered exchanges, assuming one has the answer to everything might be just a little presumptuous. Your academic and defensive position might even be challenged, you never know.
If you want considered exchanges, try considering what I’ve previously written and stop arguing against points you’ve made up inside your own head.

If I thought I had the answer to this particular problem I’d already have presented it to my bosses. What I do know from day-in, day-out experience and discussions with my peers elsewhere is that the problem stems from long-term neglect and it ain’t going to go away without substantial amounts of money being spent on vetting and compliance-monitoring. Hands up who wants to see their taxes go up and their kids’ tuition fees skyrocket?

As to, "we all have views" - we do indeed. But they have different values depending on how well informed they are. Yours, on the points I've mentioned above, clearly are not.
 

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